Fight Red Light Photo Ticket!

[Steve]

Just came across this, they actually did a special on this very thing on the local FOX4 News in Dallas and it's legit. I think Mythbusters did a deal on it as well.

Tired of Red Light Camera Tickets? (http://www.lduhtrp.net/image-2359693-10431930)

[Steve]

Here's another version of the same thing. From what i understand most all of these work just as advertised.

http://www.lduhtrp.net/image-2359693-10431020 (http://www.anrdoezrs.net/click-2359693-10431020)
Click this banner to learn more ... >>

[tlperry68]

I'd say that someone who runs a red light, causes an accident and has this on his plates should get an enhanced sentence. If people are running that many red lights that they need to hide their plates from the camera they shouldn't be allowed to drive. Repeat red light runners are putting other peoples lives at risk.

[Steve]

Logically that's not the same argument, people who take up that position often are trying to setup a strawman by changing to an emotional argument about accidents (and gasp ... the safety of children, who could be against children???) ... instead of the bigger picture of discussing mobility, public survalience and freedom in a civil society.

In a local town just on the south edge of Dallas, Duncanville, Texas, they've got a racket where they have set up red lights to snap people's vehicles if they turn RIGHT on a red light, which can be done legally. The problem is, you have to take time off work to fight it, go down to court, and in Duncanville, you have to post a $125 bond to try to fight the ticket. If you lose, then you lose the $125 plus the cost of the ticket, which is like $100. So most people just pay the ticket. PLUS, all over the country people are reporting that city officials are tellling the technicians to alter the timing for red lights, so in some parts of the town they are a certain time and in other parts of the town they are timed differently ... done with an expressed purpose to trap drivers to give them a ticket. This is very dangerous and will likely cause just as many accidents or more ... and maybe the guilty party is the city iteself. It's been reported that in Duncanville, the city red lights are sometimes turning red from green faster than what the State minimum requirement is.

Here's a story on it. http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/news/localnews/stories/020309dnmeduncameras.38f22d7.html

I think that cities are seeing these as money making ventures pure and simple and they simply should not be allowed in a free society. There are just enough people in power as seeing this as a trap that it's a dangerous big-brother type of tool.

[Springthing]

There's a difference between constantly running red lights and not wanting to get caught by those traffic lights that have shortened yellow lights.

All I know is that some years ago traffic cameras were installed in Montreal and so many ppl brought the tickets to court, the system was bottlenecked and they did away with the red light cameras because the income wasn't even close to what was being tied up with the courts.

Have you ever seen someone 'miss' (for better lack of a word) the yellow like and cause an accident because of that 1/2 a second more the spend at the intersection? Me either!

Accidents at intersections are mostly caused by ppl actually running the red light as opposed to pushing the yellow. These camera, IMHO, are put in place for REVENUE and NOT for helping eliminate accidents as proponents state.

I wish I had the link still and if someone knows which one I am talking about please, please post it... but there is a link/site with statistics out there that show that intersections with red light cameras cause significantly MORE accidents/fender benders because of people that slam on the brake as soon as they see that yellow so they don't have a chance of being caught with their butt in that intersection.

Just my thoughts..!..

PS - that site is something like redlightstats, or trafficlightstats...numbers... something like that.

[Springthing]

PLUS, all over the country people are reporting that city officials are tellling the technicians to alter the timing for red lights, so in some parts of the town they are a certain time and in other parts of the town they are timed differently ... done with an expressed purpose to trap drivers to give them a ticket.

I think that cities are seeing these as money making ventures pure and simple and they simply should not be allowed in a free society. There are just enough people in power as seeing this as a trap that it's a dangerous big-brother type of tool.


Exactly right! I was posting at the same time as you, Steve, so I didn't see this before my last post. You hit the nail right on the head, though. It's SIMPLY for revenue purposes shielded under the veil of 'safety' for the public.

It's been some time since I've been home (Canada.. Montreal/Ottawa area) but I remember the stories about the short yellows and the fact that after everyone actually COST money instead of making them money. This must have been... oh.. about 15 years ago?

[tlperry68]

Here in Huntington Beach the city gets millions and millions of dollares from tourisim and taxes. We actually have MANY bad drivers who run red lights all the time. I see it every day and it frustrates me because I have been in a few near misses because of them.
I see the cameras as a safety device more so than a source of income here where I live ( I can't speak for your neck of the woods).
Simple fact is the few sreets that have them have fewer runners - less likelyhood for an accident so I don't mind them that much.

[Springthing]

Highlights from this article (http://www.motorists.org/blog/red-light-cameras-increase-accidents-5-studies-that-prove-it/):

The NMA has been contending that red-light cameras (RLCs) are a detriment to motorist safety for many years. People, both in the media and in the general public, often dismiss this claim as opinion, suggest that there isn’t enough data available yet, ask why we support people who run red lights (we don’t), or write off the organization as being biased.
The only way to combat this is through hard facts and independent research. Luckily, we have both.


...This study examined the long term effect on accident-types of red-light cameras at 41 signalized intersections in Melbourne, Australia. The cameras were installed in 1984, and reported accidents for the period 1979 to 1989 were used in the detailed analysis.
Quotes from the study:“The results of this study suggest that the installation of the RLC at these sites did not provide any reduction in accidents, rather there has been increases in rear end and adjacent approaches accidents on a before and after basis and also by comparison with the changes in accidents at intersection signals.”
“There has been no demonstrated value of the RLC as an effective countermeasure.”...After cameras were installed, rear-end crashes increased for the entire six-jurisdiction study area… After controlling for time and traffic volume at each intersection, rear-end crash rates increased by an average of 27% for the entire study area.”


...This report from Ontario, Canada’s Ministry of Transportation’s concluded that jurisdictions using photo enforcement experienced an overall increase in property damage and fatal and injury rear-end collisions. The report also concludes that there was an overall reduction in serious accidents and angle collisions. However, a closer look at the data found in this government-sponsored report show that intersections monitored by cameras experienced, overall, a 2 percent increase in fatal and injury collisions compared to a decrease of 12.7 percent in the camera-free intersections that were used as a control group (page 21).

In case anyone would like a little light reading..

http://www.thenewspaper.com/news/18/1844.asp
http://www.motorists.org/photoenforce/
http://www.clarksvilleonline.com/2009/01/15/texas-red-light-camera-accident-stats-fudged/
http://www.thenewspaper.com/news/04/430.asp
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/10/03/AR2005100301844.html
http://www2.tbo.com/content/2008/mar/12/na-red-light-cameras-increase-accidents-usf-study-/
http://www.autoblog.com/2006/04/05/maryland-countys-red-light-cameras-net-2-85-million-increase/
http://chicagoist.com/2008/03/12/red_light_camer.php
http://www.ridelust.com/red-light-cameras-just-dont-work/
http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20080313/231629539.shtml
http://www.leftlanenews.com/study-finds-red-light-cameras-could-actually-cause-more-accidents.html
http://www.thenewspaper.com/news/19/1909.asp



But... then again... maybe it's just my imagination that's running away with me. I'm sure these cameras really ARE put in place for safety reasons and not just using that excuse to increase revenue.


BTW... found the site I'd made mention of earlier:

http://www.shortyellowlights.com/

[tlperry68]

Good info. I'm surprised to see some of those results. This city just did the required 10 year traffic analysis and concluded that only 10 posted speed limits needed changing, 2 of which were increased. The other 8 were decreased due to increased traffic near public schools. No cameras were added or other directed enforcement suggestions. There have been 3 recent fatalities on the biggest street (Beach Blvd.) all were vehcile v.s. pedestrian and none were near the intersection.

[tbplus10]

In a local town just on the south edge of Dallas, Duncanville, Texas, they've got a racket where they have set up red lights to snap people's vehicles if they turn RIGHT on a red light, which can be done legally.

Fort Worth just got caught doing the same thing at I35 and Western Center, they even had a Yield sign posted right under the camera.
A co-worker of mine did an interview with FOX 4 about his ticket and trip to court, dont know if they dismissed the ticket or not cause I havent seen him for a few days.

Two months ago Dallas County got caught over an issue of Leglity of their red light tickets, in the state of Texas the company operating the cameras is required to be certified, registered to operate, and licensed by the state to operate the cameras and process tickets. The company operating almost all of Dallas County's camera's wasnt any of the above. The court is still deciding if they have to return fines for people that've already paid.
BTW the same company operates many of the tollways and tollway camera's in Dallas County.

[Springthing]

Well, $ometing$ are ju$t hard to under$tand. I'm not $ure how the $ubject of red light camera$ ever begin$ in di$trict$ or what lead$ them to believe thi$ is actually a great idea. I hone$tly don't think that it i$ worth all the debate - there'$ ju$t too much proven negativity - ju$t tough to figure out how it'$ brought about in meeting$ with official$ able to keep a $traight face.

*shrugs*


:)

[Steve]

Fort Worth just got caught doing the same thing at I35 and Western Center, they even had a Yield sign posted right under the camera.
A co-worker of mine did an interview with FOX 4 about his ticket and trip to court, dont know if they dismissed the ticket or not cause I havent seen him for a few days.

Two months ago Dallas County got caught over an issue of Leglity of their red light tickets, in the state of Texas the company operating the cameras is required to be certified, registered to operate, and licensed by the state to operate the cameras and process tickets. The company operating almost all of Dallas County's camera's wasnt any of the above. The court is still deciding if they have to return fines for people that've already paid.
BTW the same company operates many of the tollways and tollway camera's in Dallas County.

I think I remember reading something about that. I've never gotten a red-light ticket, mostly becuase I do drive defensively.


Oh, the other big one was someone sitting in the middle of the road when the light is green, then it turns yellow and red, and then they turn after all the traffic stops. They were legally in the middle of the road, and can proceed forward when the lane is clear, but they get snapped for running the red.

[Land Shark]

My girl was driving my 03 Tahoe in DC. She ran a red light and got a photo ticket. I simply just accepted that fact and paid it. Whatever. The funny thing is that there are three different pics on the ticket. The truck in the intersection, a close up of the truck, and the license plate up close. On the second one you could clearly see my "Bulls Balls" hanging from the truck. :lol:I wanted to scan it and post it on the this site because I know all would get a kick out of it, but couldn't get the scanner to work. :grrrrrr:

[Steve]

WHAT TIMING!!!!!

I just got a photo ticket in the city of Dallas and it's got a photo of my license plate, and a website that I can go watch the video!

How comforting is that, you're being videotaped all day long by big-brother!

Anyhow, I'm not going to admit to anything, but it's VERY close, and I think they sped up the yellow light so that the red light came faster. That's my story. I'm not even certain if I wasn't in the intersection when the red light went off.

If I had photo blocker, I wouldn't have to worry about this headache.

[Steve]

Six cities BUSTED for shortening the length of their yellow-light camera.
http://www.motorists.org/blog/6-cities-that-were-caught-shortening-yellow-light-times-for-profit/

[Springthing]

Good luck with your ticket.

It's not a myth that yellow lights are being shortened...

moneymoneymoneymooonneeeyy..... (mooonnnaaayyyy)

[tlperry68]

I just saw that Huntington Beach is doing a 6 week study and might put in cameras at up to 20 intesections. I'll be looking for the yellow light timing.

[Steve]

Hey everyone, I'm organizing a group buy for the PhotoBlocker spray and we can all get a discount of 10% or more.

PhotoBlocker Group Buy! Stops Red Light Cameras (http://www.gmtruckclub.com/forum/showthread.php?t=19544)

[zach45]

Nvm.......

[bry2500]

Fortunately I have never been photo ticketed anywhere. We currently don't have them around my area but there has been talk about putting them up. I'm sure that more will be going up as a need for revenue in all states is coming to the for front. I hope you fight your ticket and win Steve. I dislike the whole Big Brother syndrome that has swept the country. There is no need to keep that close an eye on everybody. They have taken this thing way too far.

[Steve]

Huh, looks like tehre are more articles on this. Atlanta may be killing the red-light cameras!

http://www.ajc.com/services/content/metro/gwinnett/stories/2009/03/13/red_light_camera_cost.html?cxtype=rss&cxsvc=7&cxcat=13