What engine can replace 350 in 89 suburban

[Big6ft6]

Hello,

I just bought a super cheap beater 89 suburban with 209k miles on it. I just want to use it for haulin' and huntin' etc a few times a year.

anyway, it burns a lot of oil..hard to breathe with the windows down:eek:

so I've been cruisin' craigslist for another 350 I can drop in. Do I need to find another late 80's engine or can I used any 350? Are the mount holes in the engine block the same for all 350 blocks from any year?

What should I be looking for?

[TrailLeadr]

Welcome to the club, and congrats on the burb!

hmmm...as far as I know you should be able to use any 350. Perhaps someone else can confirm this.

[Big6ft6]

Welcome to the club, and congrats on the burb!

hmmm...as far as I know you should be able to use any 350. Perhaps someone else can confirm this.

Thanks trail-leader. That was my assumption too, but I'm always "measuring twice and cutting once" before running with my assumptions. If I can get a couple of confident answers from the experienced guys on here I'll feel good!:happy:

[tbplus10]

The Chevy 350 from that era is the most common engine ever produced. The small block bolt pattern is a common size and was used on almost every chevy engine built 283, 327, 400 SB, 350, 4.3, and all factory replacement small blocks.
The difference is in the heads, induction system, intake manifold, and firing system. Luckily Chevy didnt waste money reengineering things, they retrofitted items. And almost all the previous items mentioned are interchangeable from engine to engine. You may need use some of your original parts to make a different year engine fit, but with a little work it will fit.

[phoebeisis]

I should butt out since I'm a very new Suburban owner-4 weeks-and have generally been a Toyota,Honda,once GM, owner over the years.
However-
I'm pretty sure your truck has a Throttle body type fuel injection system,so it has a fair amount of electronic control and feedback.
If you try to drop a carb motor in it, it will fit, but the wiring harnesses will give you more grief than it is worth.There are plenty of 87-95 350s-or 5.7s out there,I would stick with them if at all possible.
There are also 305's out there-and they might overlap with the 350's-year wise.Some folks selling their motors assume all the V-8s in trucks are 350.
I sure can't tell a 305 from a 350, but someone here sure can.
You certainly could just buy an older motor with the carb =whatever passes for a black box,and bolt it in.You should be able to get it to work-just bypass all your BLACK BOX STUFF,but it would run like-well,you know.
There are many,many online dealers that sell rebuilt 350's online.
You won't want to spend this much $$, but www.crateenginedepot.com
sells a new-no CS rebuilt- genuine GM crate 350 for 1/2 ton trucks 87-95 for $1770-This is a NEW GM motor made by GM-can't beat that.
Just keep that in mind before spending over about $600 for a motor pulled out of a 150,000 mile vehicle.
Plan B might be to get your buddies together-pull your motor-and do a half assed rebuild-my favorite.Install new valve guide seals-then sorta hone the cylinders up to the ridge-replace all but the top ring-and bolt it back together. This might cost $400 with all the gaskets,rings, valve guide seals, oil,coolant etc.If you aren'ty actually leaking oil-it will fix it(kinda).
The above is waaaay too much work for me.
I would look for a decent take out motor-87-95- for $500 or so,or save my pennies,and go for the new GM motor.
I've been debating this myself since my new 1998 has 196,000 miles on it.We do a lot of night driving across TX(TX is filled with "middle of nowhere") so I don't really feel comfortable with a 196,000 mile motor(but the sucker runs great,hate to fix something that isn't obviously broken).
Plan C is "oil is cheap"-kinda nasty having to inhale it of course.

Luck,
Charlie

[Big6ft6]

I'm pretty sure your truck has a Throttle body type fuel injection system,so it has a fair amount of electronic control and feedback.


Thanks for the info Charlie. I only paid $500 for the burb, it does have a ***TBI*** (edit, I was an idiot I should've looked when the sller told me it was a carb) engine, according to the seller that was factory in 89 for 3/4 ton (I was surprised)? Anyway, based on my cheapo purchase price, I'm a little squeamish about the GM-crate motors, even the $1300 ones. That is too nice of a motor (but it would be cool) for this beast.

Also...can anyone suggest how in the heck you get an engine hoist to lift an engine up over the front end up a huge truck like this?

[Big6ft6]

Tim-

thank for the reply..you sound pretty sure of yourself....and that was my understanding too..so I'm feelin' pretty good!:-)

[TrailLeadr]

Also...can anyone suggest how in the heck you get an engine hoist to lift an engine up over the front end up a huge truck like this?

I'm using a standard engine hoist (http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=35915), and my burb is on jack stands to boot. I'm not having any trouble with the engine hoist and engine clearing the side or front of the engine compartment.

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/photos/35900-35999/35915.gif

What kind of hoist are you using?

The only thing I can suggest is to shorten the length of chain to the hook, and use a lift plate (http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?autofilter=1&part=SUM%2DG1015&N=700+%2D107133+115&autoview=sku) on the engine.http://static.summitracing.com/global/images/prod/norm/sum-g1015_m.jpg

Does this burb have a lift kit on it?

[Big6ft6]

I'm not having any trouble with the engine hoist and engine clearing the side or front of the engine compartment.

Does this burb have a lift kit on it?

Hey TrailLeader, that is the exact same hoist I have. Maybe it won't be an issue. The reason I was concerned is that I barely made it over the front end of 71 nova with that 350..and the burb is at least a foot or two taller over the fender! But I believe you, I'll just need to be sure I keep the chain short. That will be great if that hoist works. One more hurdle down!

[TrailLeadr]

I also would suggest extending the bar out are far as you can, this way it will increase the highest point (where hook is) at it's max lift.

[phoebeisis]

Wow,I stand corrected.The carb sure will make finding a motor easier-there are probably more than a million carbed 350's still running out there.
HEY,$500-THAT IS MY KIND OF PRICE!!The carbed drop in NEW GM motors are cheaper, but still 3x the cost of your vehicle.
You should be able to source a decent used motor, but usually motors for sale aren't in the vehicle anymore,and you have to take the sellers word for how good they ran,and how many miles they had on them.I'm guessing you could get new rings+ valve guide seals +gaskets +fluids for under $250.My $400 guess is too high. Auto zone probably will loan or rent out a hone,and if you are ambitious a ridge reamer so you can replace the top ring also.If you buy some parts from autozone they will loan the tools free(knew that would appeal to you!!). I hear the 350's have a chronic intake gasket leak problem,so I would pass on Autozones gaskets-better get a GMs gasket(or maybe someone hear knows a better one?).Autozone usually has some cheapo BS parts-made in China/India- as their cheapest offering, but they usually have some big name brands also-Pass on the cheapo rings/seals-too much work to redo.
When you pay that little for something, a set of tires isn't cost effective.The new motor would still be my 1st choice, if the vehicle is otherwise kinda' ,decent-straight, not a POS,most accessories work.You can keep your old motor on the side,slowly do a half hearted rebuild,and when you sell the Suburban reinstall the old motor,and use your "good motor" for something else.Lotta work, but....
A new motor would mean you have $2000 in it- a new motor-documented-will make your vehicle worth >$2000 to many folks.I bought my 200,000 vehicle($2950) because he had the transmission rebuilt at 186,000 miles,and the AC done at 160,000.I might not have bought it if the trans was original.
You can get your $$ out of a new GM 350 when you sell the vehicle,and you won't have to sniff burnt oil for the next 5 years!A running truck(pickup or Suburban-kinda interchangeable as work trucks here in NO with all the demo+construction going on) with a new motor or trans is always worth $2000-$3000 here-New Orleans.Some folks prefer the Suburban to a pickup as a work vehicle-it can"flat" carry 4X8 material-most SB pickups can't.Some have been"cut" gutted and converted into half assed open pickups with long beds.Suburbans are cheaper than pickups here.
Luck,
Charlie

[Crawdaddy]

Good to see another New Orleanian here... I was thinking that I may have to rebuild the motor in my Sub. Getting a new crate would probably be cheaper in the end for me. My uncle's already rebuilt a 454 out of a 1-ton dually that was flooded in New Orleans east during Katrina. We just need to put it back in the truck. In the end, he probably should have gotten a crate, with the amount of money in parts we put into it. Virtually every sensor had to be replaced, rods, piston tops, cam had to be replaced. Just miserable taking that motor apart...sludge in the whole motor :(

[tbplus10]

Hey TrailLeader, that is the exact same hoist I have. Maybe it won't be an issue. The reason I was concerned is that I barely made it over the front end of 71 nova with that 350..and the burb is at least a foot or two taller over the fender! But I believe you, I'll just need to be sure I keep the chain short. That will be great if that hoist works. One more hurdle down!
If all else fails after you get all the under the truck bolts undone separate the engine and trans, pull the front wheels off and drop her on the front suspension.

[phoebeisis]

Good to see another New Orleanian here... I was thinking that I may have to rebuild the motor in my Sub. Getting a new crate would probably be cheaper in the end for me. My uncle's already rebuilt a 454 out of a 1-ton dually that was flooded in New Orleans east during Katrina. We just need to put it back in the truck. In the end, he probably should have gotten a crate, with the amount of money in parts we put into it. Virtually every sensor had to be replaced, rods, piston tops, cam had to be replaced. Just miserable taking that motor apart...sludge in the whole motor :(

Crawdaddy,
I was lucky- the water stopped on the other side of Airline Highway-so no nasty muck to clean out of everything.I always do the math wrong when I think about rebuilds.I would have figured $500 to rebuild the 454, but it was probably more like $1000 and 100 hours.Heck all the surfaces of the crank must have been pitted-lotta machine work and such,and then you aren't sure just how long the rebuild will last or how good it is. Of course,since no one had any $$ post Katrina,there wasn't much choice.
Luck,
Charlie

[DeputyDave]

Why not overhaul, rebuild the engine you have?

[Crawdaddy]

Why not overhaul, rebuild the engine you have?

in certain cases (like the Katrina 454 motor I was talking about), you have to replace so much of the internals that it's cheaper in the long run to buy a crate and drop it in. Another thing that could warrant this is if the cylinder walls were pitted beyond the point of boreing them out. Sure, you could sleeve the cylinder, but I personally would rather just buy a new block, or if the motor was that bad, just buy a crate. Unfortunatley, my uncle and I didn't think about this long enough before he started buying parts to rebuild...

[Big6ft6]

Why not overhaul, rebuild the engine you have?

Deputy,

That is a good idea, and I might just do that, but it will be my first time opening an engine up, and I want to be able to take my time. So if I can find another running (non-oil burning) engine to drop in there in the mean time (for hunting season!) I would splurge.

But I am interested in trying my hand at the rebuild thing over the winter!

[DeputyDave]

Overhauling an engine is a rather simple thing to do, having said that I have overhauled more then I care to think about, I can do a small block in a week blind folded :) the number one most important thing in my book is a clean area to assemble and wash the engine several times after you get it back from the machine shop, little tiny pieces of metal will kill a new engine the fastest, tide works best (no kidding) take every plug cap everything off and get in the cracks nooks and crannies then wash the engine again, I use a mixture of lucas or STP and tranny fluid to coat and assemble everything, if you can do the heads do them if not disassemble the heads get your dremal tool out and clean off the flashing on the intake and exhaust (don't go crazy here you can junk a set of heads in no time) then send the heads out with your own new parts, oh and don't wash the heads when you get them back, get a good overhaul kit, new freeze plugs and put'er together. the last engine I rebuilt is a daily driver in a 4x4 with well over 250,000 miles and still running strong. good luck.

[phoebeisis]

Deputy Dave,
I've fooled with many motorcycle engines, but never pulled a car\truck engine(suburban)? Just how hard is it when pulling an engine out of the engine bay,to separate it from the transmission? I'll be replacing my Suburban motor(200,000 miles 1998) in my driveway.I don't have the cash to pay someone to do it.
Is it tough to actually get them apart?I don't want to do any prying\wedging on gasket surfaces-like trying to separate the half cases of a motorcycle.I trashed those cases doing that(was supposed to use a special tool).Do the motor and trans just come apart as you raise the motor out of the engine bay(removing all bolts/nuts first of course)?
Are there any tricks to getting it out of the engine bay(assuming it is in a driveway with no special tools other than a motor lift)?
Thanks,
Charlie
PS-Where abouts in Miss. are you?I'm 4 miles W of NO.Lotta displaced NO area folks ended up near or in Miss(Popularville etc) because land and houses are cheaper than Houston,Shreveport,Baton Rouge.A fair number of our less stellar citizens ended up in Houston,and regularly make the news there-too bad for Houston-no good deed goes unpunished!

[Crawdaddy]

phoebeisis, he's in prentiss county, north mississippi (do I smell a southern get together in the works??? ;) ).... To separate a motor from a tranny can vary dpending on how long it's been attached to the tranny, extenuating circumstances (I know I keep bringning up the Katrina 454, but that was a b*tch to work on) such as the tranny alignment pins rusting to the motor, etc. For the dually that went through katrina, my uncle and I just yanked on the engine lift and shook the block as violently as we could in the bay to get it separated. About 5 mins of shaking, yanking, tapping got it separated. Just be careful, when it happens, it'll happen fast...

[Big6ft6]

[QUOTE=phoebeisis;35219]Deputy Dave,
I've fooled with many motorcycle engines, but never pulled a car\truck engine(suburban)? Just how hard is it when pulling an engine out of the engine bay,to separate it from the transmission?[QUOTE]

Hey phoebeisis,

I'm sure debuty can give you more details that are specific to a truck. But I just pulled the 350 from my car that was attached to a TH350 tranny.

There aren't any gaskets or such between the engine and bellhousing. There are simply two sets of bolts holding the engine to the tranny. 1) bellhousing bolts 2) flexplate to torque converter bolts. Once these bolts are removed the two items should come apart. As crawdaddy said, there could be some grime in the alignment pins, but unless your truck was submerged in a hurricane it shouldn't be too bad.

Be sure to have something supporting the front of your tranny, the engine is all that is holding it up, once you undo that connection it will fall:shocked:

You'll also need to undo everything else connected to your engine and label them well. All wires and hoses, accessories, exhuast etc. Just start somewhere and keep going until nothing is connected.

[DeputyDave]

Pulling engine is a rather simple task also, before you do anything, steam clean the engine tranny everything you can see pressure wash it or steam clean it. put the truck on some ramps, pull the battery out, put a jack under the tranny pan with a 2x4 so the jack don't dent the pan and put very little pressure on it, unbolt the exhaust, pull the bell housing bolts (theres 6 of them) and pull the motor mount bolts, remove the starter. Back on top take everything off the from the engine, disconnect your wiring harness, fuel lines, pull your distributer out if it will pull strait out other wise just leave it, after you get everything unhooked and disconnected pull your radiator hoses, if your gonna use the carb. plate (highly recommended) attach that, jack up the engine so the motor mounts clear, add a little more pressure to the tranny jack so its not binding and pull the engine.

[Brian's 97]

I have 97 burb I have been considering repower w/ diesel any suggestions?
it came with 5.7 vortec but is getting up in miles about 156000 still runs well w/K&N filter only.

[phoebeisis]

Thanks guys.I just printed the instructions,tips.
Now I just have to decide between the Goodwrench new replacement motor $2200+shipping(one of the great bargains in history for a new, not rebuilt,factory motor),or the HT383E a stroker GM Performance motor with 340 hp-435 LB-FT-(about $4500-a real bargain for a drop in hot rod motor with a warranty).I'm a bit puzzled-they describe it as drop in, but they say the 4L60 is only good to 380 lb-ft. I rarely tow,and it wouldn't be more than maybe 2000 lbs,and I'm old-56-so I can resist hitting the gas.I wonder if I should put a too powerful motor with that stock trans?
The smart play is obvious-stay stock-but it is hard to face all that work just for stock performance.For $1800 more I get 85 more HP!!
Oh well.I don't have the $$ to do anything yet.
Thanks,
Charlie

[tbplus10]

Now I just have to decide between the Goodwrench new replacement motor $2200+shipping(one of the great bargains in history for a new, not rebuilt,factory motor),or the HT383E a stroker GM Performance motor with 340 hp-435 LB-FT-(about $4500-a real bargain for a drop in hot rod motor with a warranty).I'm a bit puzzled-they describe it as drop in, but they say the 4L60 is only good to 380 lb-ft. I rarely tow,and it wouldn't be more than maybe 2000 lbs,and I'm old-56-so I can resist hitting the gas.I wonder if I should put a too powerful motor with that stock trans?

Just because you put it in writing doesnt mean it's true. You know you'll hit the gas to test out that power. But on the upside if you do and manage to destroy the trans that just means it was ready to go and you now have an exscuse to buy the GM performance transmission to match your engine.
Actually I think you'll see a big performance increase by replacing your tired worn engine with the Goodwrench replacement engine and may not ever miss the extra horses you coulda had.

[phoebeisis]

tbplus10, you're right, it will be hard to resist giving it a little nudge every once in a while, just to see what 340 hp feels ,and sounds like. Depending on how honest GM is on the size of their horses, it should be pretty quick-maybe 7.5 sec 0-60-pretty fast for a 5400 lb vehicle.
The smart move is to stay stock.The Suburban is replacing a low mile-40,000 2003 Honda Pilot.The Pilot was a great trip vehicle-quiet,decent mpg(22mpg) and enough room for 2 adults and one greyhound to sleep in the back at rest stops-save $$).We drive across TX,NM,AZ when we have the $$ and stay at the La Quinta in Flagstaff AZ.We ran into $$ problems,so I sold the $15,500,and bought the Suburban $2950 (196,000 miles but in good shape-trans rebuilt at 185000 last year).My point is that the Suburban has to make that 3000+ mile roundtrip,and there is a lot of middle of nowhere in TX(it is about 900 miles across TX).If I had an ounce of sense,I wouldn't even consider the higher power engine.
I've only owned the Suburban for about 2 months, but it has been a very pleasant surprise.Everything works-all the electrical doo dads etc- driver's seat windows mirror-and it gets 12mpg is pure very short trip city driving(the Pilot would only get 13mpg in the same driving despite being 1000 lbs lighter,V6,and having a more modern motor.trans(5 speed).
The Surburban rattles much more-on crummy city streets-but it is very quiet on smooth highways where it will do the trip miles.It has a nice soft ride,and a decent turning radius(maybe no more than the shorter pilot).The one huge advantage is that huge flat area behind the ft seats. It will be much more comfortable sleeping back there.I won't have to fight Phoebe(greyhound) for sleeping space.It also is flat-the Pilot's middle road didn't go flat-it was 15 degrees up-wife hated that.
All in all,I should stay stock,
Thanks,
Charlie

[Crawdaddy]

phoebeisis, sounds like you have a plan. Just don't drive in New Orleans proper and you'll be good... :sarcastic: I find my my Sub rattles a lot, but I got over it very quickly. The back is VERY confortable, the only thing I found annoying is that at night, even in the hot Louisiana weather, the piano hinge for the 2nd row seat is VERY cold at night. I've slept in the back a couple times, and both times I folded the 2nd row down and used the 3rd row as a pillow.

[DeputyDave]

Swapping a gas for a diesel is major, MAJOR undertaking not worth all the effort.

Does GM still offer the Target engine? now theres a crate engine with plenty of HPer I dropped one of those in a neighbors 1972 kingswood station wagon, what a ride the old sb400 I pulled I used in my 69 Nova SS raced for man years

http://picasaweb.google.com/akaarizona/OldPictures/photo#5093430107386487618


http://picasaweb.google.com/akaarizona/OldPictures/photo#5093430107386487618

[Cableguy]

Start bidding....
http://cgi.ebay.ca/LS7-454-GM-Crate-Motor-NEW-NEVER-RAN_W0QQitemZ120148604015QQihZ002QQcategoryZ140684 QQtcZphotoQQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

[Big6ft6]

Wow,I stand corrected.The carb sure will make finding a motor easier-there are probably more than a million carbed 350's still running out there.


Charlie, you were correct, it is a TBI motor, I was just a meat head for believing the kid who sold me the truck knew what he was talking about. it would've only taken me 22 seconds to life off the air cleaner and look...:redface:

[phoebeisis]

Big6'6", yeah, it did seem odd to be a carb that late.
Still, there are at least 1,000,000 of those out there also.
I think www.crateenginedepot.com sells them for maybe $1600-a genuine GM engine, not a BS aftermarket one made in China.
I don't know jack about cratengine depot,they are just one I found online.There are lots of online sellers of Goodwrench engines-most discount the TBI 350 for well under $2000. The 96-99 EFI (not sure what it is called, but it isn't a throttle body)engine is maybe $2200.I need to get one of those once my $$ problems are less severe.
Charlie