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  1. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by SurrealOne View Post
    Are you part of the latest generation of people that treats almost everything as if it is disposable? If not, then I'd think you'd want GM to keep rather than dispose of the Corvette's heritage lines.

    GM can call something a Corvette all they like but if people don't see the lineage or like it ... it won't sell.
    Looking at the 2014 Corvette I don't see that GM is abandoning the Corvette's heritage. Do you want the 2014 Corvette to have a carburetor and chrome side pipes?

    Automobiles evolve. The 2013 Silverado bears little resemblance to say a 1971 Silverado, but yet it is accepted and people call it a Silverado.

    The current generation of Corvette while powerful, overcame its short comings with sheer brute force. I've sat in quite a few of the current generation Corvettes and while they are cool, the interiors are somewhat primitive looking and lack in the fit and finish of a car costing $70K or greater.

    The 2014 Corvette hopefully will address a lot of the short comings of the current generation and make the car truly world class.

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  2. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by stchman View Post
    Looking at the 2014 Corvette I don't see that GM is abandoning the Corvette's heritage. Do you want the 2014 Corvette to have a carburetor and chrome side pipes?
    I was very specific in discussing heritage lines. Carbs and exhaust pipes aren't body lines, are they? You had your answer before you asked the question.

    Quote Originally Posted by stchman View Post
    Automobiles evolve.
    Birds evolved from fish and both evolved from algea, but we call them different things because the deviation is too great to continue to call them the same. So, too, it is with vehicles. I'm someone who felt very strongly GM needed to stop calling it a Corvette the year they abandoned pop-up headlights since that was a hallmark of the car and part of its body lineage.

    And what, by the way, happens when deviation from the original line is too great? A perfect example would be the GTO. The last GTO's produced looked NOTHING like the GTO of the muscle car era that people loved. Sales of the late model were abysmal as a result...

  3. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by SurrealOne View Post
    I was very specific in discussing heritage lines. Carbs and exhaust pipes aren't body lines, are they? You had your answer before you asked the question.


    Birds evolved from fish and both evolved from algea, but we call them different things because the deviation is too great to continue to call them the same. So, too, it is with vehicles. I'm someone who felt very strongly GM needed to stop calling it a Corvette the year they abandoned pop-up headlights since that was a hallmark of the car and part of its body lineage.

    And what, by the way, happens when deviation from the original line is too great? A perfect example would be the GTO. The last GTO's produced looked NOTHING like the GTO of the muscle car era that people loved. Sales of the late model were abysmal as a result...
    I have to agree with stchman to some degree S. If you want a 69 corvette with an LSA in it and all the luxuries we enjoy in today's automobiles, then get the old one and upgrade it.

    I think the car is 95% what it should be for the next generation. I would not be bothered driving a 2014 around at all and no one would mistake if for a 3000GT if they were behind it.

    It just needs a a little Callaway TLC under the hood and it will be ready for the road.
    Last edited by PantheraUncia; 01-15-2013 at 11:56 PM.

  4. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by SurrealOne View Post
    I was very specific in discussing heritage lines. Carbs and exhaust pipes aren't body lines, are they? You had your answer before you asked the question.


    Birds evolved from fish and both evolved from algea, but we call them different things because the deviation is too great to continue to call them the same. So, too, it is with vehicles. I'm someone who felt very strongly GM needed to stop calling it a Corvette the year they abandoned pop-up headlights since that was a hallmark of the car and part of its body lineage.

    And what, by the way, happens when deviation from the original line is too great? A perfect example would be the GTO. The last GTO's produced looked NOTHING like the GTO of the muscle car era that people loved. Sales of the late model were abysmal as a result...
    Are we discussing heritage lines or body lines? I read your previous posts and wll that was referred to was heritage, but whatever.

    I should have said automobile designs evolve.

    You do know that the original Corvette did NOT have pop-up headlights? IIRC, the Corvette did not have pop-up headlights until 1969, which was 16 years after the Corvette was introduced.

    So one could say that when GM no longer had the Corvette use pop-up headlights, they RETURNED to their lineage.

    This all all semantics. The new Corvette will sell and hopefully the fit and finish of the car will be deserving of its $70K+ price tag.

  5. #15
    Jr. Apprentice wackoaboutgm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SurrealOne View Post
    Are you part of the latest generation of people that treats almost everything as if it is disposable? If not, then I'd think you'd want GM to keep rather than dispose of the Corvette's heritage lines. GM can call something a Corvette all they like but if people don't see the lineage or like it ... it won't sell.
    I agree. It really doesn't look right .
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  6. #16

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    Heritage lines are the body lines that broadly define a car's shape/looks across the years. The easiest example to point at is the Porsche 911 -- you know one when you see one regardless of the year produced because ALL of its heritage lines have remained intact through the years. I use this example because its body lines, today, are probably closer to the original design than any other modern production car (produced across the same window of time) when compared with its original design. Porsche makes it a priority...

    Other easy examples are the long hood of the Jaguar ... the boxy shape of the Volvo ... the rectangular shape of the BMW 300 series and that goofy grille the 300 series has. The new Challenger is a good example, too -- as it was brought back and looks like the bigger, meaner brother of the 1970's Challenger -- because all relevant lines were preserved. Compare that to the new Charger, which is an example of poor preservation of heritage lines; it was made into a 4 door sedan which altered its look pretty substantially (unlike the Challenger), and the MOPAR crowd took issue with it -- as they well should have.

    GM doesn't seem to place stock in such things. The latest Camaro preserved little from its late 60's parents. The modern vette deviates wildly from the 60's muscle styling that did the most to make it famous. You call that evolution but I call it deviation because the 911 has evolved beneath its skin with zero sacrifice of its heritage lines. That shows that it's possible ... and that GM just places little or no priority in the preservation of the vette's aesthetics. Disappointing.

    As for pop-up headlights on vettes, a family member is a 63' split-window coupe afficionado and I've been dragged around to see piles of them; all of them had pop-up headlights. I've never seen a vette older than 63, so I can't speak to those ... but from 63 to 2004 every vette had them and I was disgusted when they were abandoned in 2004. I know why it was done -- it shaved cost and weight and improved aerodynamics -- but still, it was a loss I mourned.

    As for the fit and finish of the 70k vette, here's an example of the poor fit/finish of the exterior in recent years:


    That won't happen on a Porsche or Mercedes. I'm hoping it won't happen on the 2014 vette, either. And for the interior, in recent years the dash squeaked if you pushed on it and darn near every knob, trim piece, and panel felt like it could be pulled off fairly easily. I realize many people don't see past the leather on the seats or pay attention to such details -- but I do -- and when you're paying nearly 1.5 times what the average 2-earner family earns in a year for a car, such things are inexcusable in my book. The speciality vettes like the 2013 commemorative edition and the ZR1 don't feel like this, but they are MUCH more expensive than ~70k IIRC.

    People will, of course buy the new vette, regardless of fit/finish ... just as they bought the ones with flexible rear body panels and squeaky dashes. The fact that they did so is proof that money can't buy taste. With luck, the 2014 will actually have some class and taste in addition to the performance vettes tend to be known for.

  7. #17
    Master Mechanic zigger215's Avatar
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    If the evolution of the corvette stays stagnant than it will not stay competitive, especially with the release of the new viper. I believe the heritage if GM's infamous corvette IS pushing the envelope in a radically designed vette with tons of natural aspirated power (until you get into the big boy vets which have a blower). I personally am very happy the vette appears to be the car leading all American muscle into the future.

  8. #18
    Master Mechanic zigger215's Avatar
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    Think about this, look at how far our trucks have come since early model 90s trucks with TBI and then think about the evolution those trucks were in comparison to the early 70s GM rigs (arguably the most beautiful trucks ever built!) and yet with every model released in Detroit they aren't straying from their heritage, they're getting more in touch, GMs heritage in general has always been and hopefully always will be, quality and innovation built right here in America. That vette, to me, is saying "I won't follow the muscle car into the future, I'll be the one dragging it into the future kickin and screaming!"

  9. #19
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    This seems to be an argument over tail lights as a signature on the Vette, and that the round tail lights define it. Well they have changed, the refresh of the C4 towards its end of the run did not have round tail lights, they where in fact square with a softened corner. The 66 stingray did NOT have 2 round tail lights but had 1 tail light and one reverse light. I can't recall which year Vette but that one had 3 lights per side (2 tail,1 reverse) out back yes they were round. The 50s vettes only had one. Yes it's a Corvette and yes it has heritage, but I think more of that is tied to that its always been in the realm of Porsche and Ferrari but at a fraction of the cost. That it has great styling, and has stuck with the same layout, 2 seat front engine RWD. IF this car had round tail lights it would look stupid in contrast with its sharp lines. It's the same as it was when Chevy went away from the pop up head lights. There was uproar, get over it is what I say. Be thankful the rumors weren't true that it was gonna be mid engine AWD......
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  10. #20

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    Where did you get that idea? I know I've said not one word about round tail lights...

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