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  1. #1

    Default Active Duty Soldier Disarmed & Arrested by Temple Texas Police (Illegal Search?)

    What are we coming to in this country when someone who's not breaking any laws is arrested in front of his own kid by a "law enforcement officer" who clearly doesn't care what the law is. This is very disturbing that this could happen, not in an urban area like New York City, but out in an area that we used to this was safe from this type of treatment.

    I've seen the video and the hiker is slightly arrogant and fairly glib, but he is quicker on his feet than the officer. However, to give him the charges that were filed against him I think were improper. The officer does have the right to question people, in fact I like that in an officer. I think that he should have seen that a father and a son who were walking in the country on (I assume) a Boy Scout 10k hike had taken along a rifle for protection against wild animals.

    Now, I'm NOT active duty military, and I would have slung it over my shoulder to make it easier to carry and to give me more freedom with my hands. However, his training has probably been such to keep it in front of him. It's a different style of carry, and it's probably a 6/half-a-dozen argument for that.



    "We're exempt from the law," says the sergeant on the scene."You ain't exempt from the law," says Grisham.
    "Yes we are," is the reply.
    Grisham was then arrested for Resisting Arrest, but though argumentative, the video doesn't obviously show him resisting.
    At one point, he tells Ermis, "Tell you what, let me give my camera to my son, and I will do everything you ask."
    Last edited by Steve; 04-18-2013 at 09:21 AM.

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  2. #2

    Default

    If there was an actual call/complaint about him walking with that rifle, the officers had a right to stop him and question him -- but if they found that he was not violating the law and they did not feel threatened by him, then they would not have any right to demand his name (they'd demand it, anyway, but he could refuse), to search him, or to disarm him.

    His failure to remain calm ... in the form of arguing, shouting, and insulting the officers (example: "well if you felt threatened you're a sorry excuse for a police officer") is enough to be arrested on the charge of resisting arrest. He'll need to substantiate that his civil rights were violated ... and that footage doesn't help him, as his demeanor suggests someone amped up and angry ... with a gun ... who is argumentative. I'd have disarmed someone in that state, too, if I were a cop.

    Had he managed to maintain his composure and refrain from insults ... and treated the officers with respect while holding calmly and firmly to his rights ... this might have had a different outcome.

  3. #3

    Default

    Yeah, but being amped up and argumentative isn't a crime and it's not a cause for being arrested. I know people who are like that all the time, and they're annoying but they're not a threat to anyone. I think this guy had a point to prove and is an activist looking (maybe hoping) for publicity on the subject.

    Now that I've had a cup of coffee to look it over, it's still got to come down to the fact that we're a nation of laws and not a nation of men. Did they have the right to disarm him ... I'm not so sure about that, all of the language that I've read talks about concealed carry laws, not rifles. I'm sure there is a provision in Texas state code, but I'd have to look it up.
    Last edited by Steve; 04-18-2013 at 10:30 AM.

  4. #4

    Default

    One problem the police have is to be arrested for resisting arrest without further charges leaves them in the position of having to defend their actions. I dont remember the case but charges of that type are considered a violation of civil rights. Then theirs a few other civil rights violations like the removal of his weapon.

    Grisham did make 1 mistake when he didnt immediately disclose he had another weapon and a concealed carry but he did disclose it before they had a chance to find the weapon and under the circumstances his disclosure might be considered the first chance.

    Im sure the Temple police will lose this case in court especially after they searhed his wallet after being told not to wallet is an extension and all of his resisting could be cosidered to avoid illegal search ans seizure of his person.

    But the video does show over zealous police will do what they want and when on camera atemmpt to justify or avoid what happened. Being a vet really has no bearing on the situation other than the fact hes had training to handle weapons the basic rights are those of any legal U. S. citizen.

  5. #5

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by tbplus10 View Post
    Grisham did make 1 mistake when he didnt immediately disclose he had another weapon and a concealed carry but he did disclose it before they had a chance to find the weapon and under the circumstances his disclosure might be considered the first chance.
    Texas is a 'duty to inform' state? That surprises me.

    Quote Originally Posted by tbplus10 View Post
    Im sure the Temple police will lose this case in court especially after they searhed his wallet after being told not to wallet is an extension and all of his resisting could be cosidered to avoid illegal search ans seizure of his person.
    This is an excellent point. A good attorney will probably argue it that, way, too. Still, had he remained calm I suspect there'd have been a different outcome.

  6. #6

    Default

    yeah, I agree with that statement. If this guy were to have remained calm and just told them that he was out on a hike with his kid ... even considering the fact that his rifle was slung around his chest (which I would find alarming if I were out hiking with my kids and I saw someone coming at me with what looks like an AR-15 being carried like that) ... I think they would have asked to see it (which I'm not sure they can do, that's still another gray area if he's not considered a threat to himself or to someone else) and then let him go on his merry way. Remember the cops got a call about someone carrying an assault rifle, they would have been remiss to NOT have answered the call and gone to figure it all out.

  7. #7

    Default

    Front carry of the rifle makes perfect sense as the guy has a pack on. That's the usual reason for front-slung rifles, by the way, whether military or civilian -- i.e. there's already shouldered gear.

    To those with firearm experience, HOW he carries the rifle is no big deal as long as it's pointed in a safe direction at all times -- but to the general public (which tends to lack firearm experience), front-slung or hand-carried rifles may seem to be an oddity.

    Kifaru makes a gunbearer accessory for use with packs that allows you to carry UNDER the shoulder (which is actually a very natural place to put it). It keeps the muzzle pointed up, it's actually faster to deploy than a front-slung firearm that is hanging from its sling, and it's far less obtrusive in the civlian world than a front-slung rifle. Both hunters and tactical folks, alike, use them.



    That guy should probably invest in one.
    Last edited by Steve; 04-18-2013 at 12:29 PM.

  8. #8

    Default

    The guy may have been well within his rights. I don't know the laws in Texas. That being said, I have witnessed that mouthing off or getting loud with a police officer gets you nowhere and destroys most of the credibility that you may have had. If his rights were being violated he would have had a much stronger case if he was not mouthing off to the officers. After watching the video I want to deem this guy one of the "Cause i can" guys. Sure, he may have been within his rights, but as Steve said walking down the side of the road with a gun in front of him like that may have been the reason someone called, it can look threatening. Put it over his shoulder and this may have never happened. I live very close to a state owned hunting area. There are always guys walking down the shoulder of the road with a rifle over their shoulders. I have a feeling that if they were being carried the other way people would have a negative reaction. A few days after Michigan changed it's open carry law I was in Meijer (kind of like walmart) with my family. Three guys walked in wearing cut off jean shorts and sleeveless confederate flag shirts (not seen very often in that area considering it is about 2 miles away from a city primarily occupied by african americans) with about 6 teeth between all three. They all had desert eagles strapped to their legs! They were not shopping they would just walk from area to area to stand and talk, waiting to look at peoples' reactions. No one said anything until the manager walked over to them and ask what they were in the store to do as they were not shopping. One of the guys quickly responded with "I am within my rights to be here with my gun exposed" The manager said "I did not say anything about your gun, I feel as if you are loitering" the man then went into a rant about his rights and that he was doing it because he can. The police came, removed the men and I was told that they were given a ticket for loitering.
    Last edited by Pikey; 04-18-2013 at 11:35 AM.

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  9. #9

    Default Don't Validate the Power to Harass

    Quote Originally Posted by SurrealOne View Post
    If there was an actual call/complaint about him walking with that rifle, the officers had a right to stop him and question him -- but if they found that he was not violating the law and they did not feel threatened by him, then they would not have any right to demand his name (they'd demand it, anyway, but he could refuse), to search him, or to disarm him.

    His failure to remain calm ... in the form of arguing, shouting, and insulting the officers (example: "well if you felt threatened you're a sorry excuse for a police officer") is enough to be arrested on the charge of resisting arrest. He'll need to substantiate that his civil rights were violated ... and that footage doesn't help him, as his demeanor suggests someone amped up and angry ... with a gun ... who is argumentative. I'd have disarmed someone in that state, too, if I were a cop.

    Had he managed to maintain his composure and refrain from insults ... and treated the officers with respect while holding calmly and firmly to his rights ... this might have had a different outcome.
    Actually, the police don't have the right to investigate complaints about legal action.

    To be able to stop any citizen for any reason to investigate what they are doing in the absence of a valid complaint about a reasonable belief that the person is violating the law is to give to the police a power to harass that allows them to have a very chilling effect on any activity that the police do not approve of.

    Such as, for instance, open carry of a rifle.

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