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  1. #31


    Except for mason jars, and the human liver, of course. [/QUOTE]

    Make that mason jars, livers suffer from cirrhosis.

  2. #32


    Quote Originally Posted by dobey View Post
    That tells me that there is perhaps bias in the studies they do, and not that the claims made by Fox News are substantiated.
    Read the rebuttal I linked; I think it clearly rebuts accusations of bias. There's also the EWG report I linked, which wasn't done by the CRC and which seems to be in line with the CRC's results. That constitutes independent scientific corroboration, strengthening the case for E15 to be a potential problem (a term I'm using very loosely, here) if it's pushed mainstream.

    I wasn't trying to substantiate what Fox said, at all, by the way. You had indicated you wanted science/technical discussion and couldn't find anything like that, so I took a few minutes to search, myself, and shared the results of my effort. That is all.

  3. #33


    Quote Originally Posted by dobey View Post

    Those are good finds, and I'll have to give them a read. However, while those are findings from scientific studies, which are certainly useful, they are not statements from manufacturers or AAA to say that warranty claims by anyone who does use E15 in vehicles, will not be handled under warranty, or to notify consumers who own their vehicles, to not use E15. This is what I was looking for, and what these articles from Fox News keep alluding to, but which I can not find any evidence of actually existing.
    On my Wifes 2013 Toyota Avalon it says right on the gas cap to not use anything over 10% ethanol. Here it is in the manual: (page 11 of the pdf document). I guarantee that if you use something they specifically say can damage the engine they will not warranty it.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Probably would fall under this in the warranty manual. Sorry for some reason I can not get to another line by hitting enter.

    This warranty does not cover damage or

    failures resulting directly or indirectly from

    any of the following:

    Fire, accidents or theft

    Abuse or negligence

    Misuse — for example, racing or


    Improper repairs

    Alteration or tampering, including

    installation of non-Genuine Toyota


    Lack of or improper maintenance,

    including use of fluids other than
    those specified in the Owner’s Manual

    Installation of non-Genuine Toyota


    Airborne chemicals, tree sap, road

    debris (including stone chips), rail

    dust, salt, hail, floods, wind storms,

    lightning and other environmental


    Water contamination

    This warranty also does not
    2004 Silverado 2500 Crew Cab 4x4, AMSOIL EA air filter, Granatelli MAF sensor, Throttle body spacer, Magnaflow exhaust (true dual to 2 in 1 out muffler), 6" ProComp lift (add a leaf and 5" superlift rear block), Bilstein shocks, 35's (Cooper Disoverer ST) and 4.10 gears, Rhino Liner, EGRUSA fender Flares and widow visors, extended stainless steel brake lines, firestone airbags w/onboard air compressor, Pioneer Avic X940BT navigation, Accel backup camera.
    1960 Land Rover Series II 88
    2001 Pontiac Sunfire
    2013 Toyota Avalon Limited (Wife's Car)
    NRA Life Member

  4. #34


    I have found this thread very amusing to say the least. I guess the best thing for all here would be to do thier own research. Yes, it involves risk. But it also offers great rewards too. Don't depend on possibly slanted research.
    What I would like to offer here is some interesting info that I have found. I own a 1964 Ford N600 stake truck, 330 gas engine. I also own a 1948 Dodge Stake truck, unknown 6 cyl engine. I have been running E50 in both for several years with no damage or trouble. The 48 is not an everyday driver. Mostly firewood and parades. The 64 IS an everyday driver. It is used to haul 400 bushels of corn once a week, 6 ton of soy meal, 8 tons of salt, or feed ingredients, etc... No problems at all. In fact, the owners manual I have for it clearly states that alternative fuels can be used including ethanol. What gives? If ford had the technology 50 years ago, why the great debate now? The only thing I have had to do was install new valves and seats 15 years ago as there is little lube in unleaded/ethanol fuel. Niether burns any oil and always starts.
    I also have been burning E85 straight in my family vehicles, a '03 H2, a '03 Dodge half ton, and a 91 Chevy Cheyenne 2wd. No problems. Converted the last three to flex fuels, costs less than $500. it is just a programming change. Our fuel expenses are 2/3 what they would be normally. Oil changes are less frequent. and nobody gets a headache in the shop when they are left running. E85 price here is $2.89 gal, Reg gas $4.09 gal.
    The facts published are irrelevant to me. The numbers don't lie. What seems to be the problem is change. people hate change. it scares them. With time, all will accept the benefits of ethanol. And if not, fuel stations will continue to offer reg gas as there is a demand. There is no reason to get upset over it.

    o one last thing. My friend has a John Deere A that has a second tank on it for alternative fuels like ethanol. thats 1940's era. And it runs great on ethanol.

    And another thing - lol - Remember the fuel lines of the 70's? My dad built a commercial grade ethanol column and we made ethanol to farm on for a couple of years. the cattle loved the mash and we had plenty of fuel to farm on. And those tractors are still running great. Hmmmmm.
    Last edited by Highbank; 06-20-2013 at 11:11 PM.

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