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  1. #11
    Jr. Apprentice
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    San Antonio, TX
    Posts
    25

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    I can say that the engine assembly is different for flex fuel versus straight gas. I worked in the Toyota engine plant that builds the V6's for Camry, Avalon, Sienna and RX. The short block and heads were the same but all of the associated rubber lines used for fuel were changed over to stainless steel. All of the seals in the injector system, as well as the injectors, were completely different than for a straight gas engine. The Government, EPA or whoever, saying that E15+ is fine for all vehicles manufactured after a particular date kills me. They aren't set for the higher alcohol content. It also ticks me off that we are still paying the same price for "gas" when we're only get 85-90% of what we're paying for. Not to mention that the increased ethanol production based on corn is driving up food prices. If it was being made from some non-food based source it would be different. We're really paying for it two or three times, once at the pump, once in the government subsidies and again at the grocery story. I don't have a problem with alternate fuels but they should be able to stand on there own in the market place in my opinion.
    Mike
    2003 Suburban LT
    2WD, 5.3L Flex Fuel

  2. #12

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    Mike if ya ever want to read some real interesting stuff about E-85 or Ethanol in general google " E-85 FAA and EPA".
    Outside of aviation circles no one paid much attention to the fact the EPA reversed its fuel policies for Ethanol use in aircraft engines due to proven corrosion issues after the FAA put pressure on the EPA and threatened to take the issue to congress.
    The EPA admitted ethanol was behind corrosion issues in auto, marine, small engine, and gas powered aircraft engines. But their decision was the public could just eat the added cost as long as their policies were followed. The FAA stuck it to them hard but the changes only affect aircraft.
    The EPA has put waivers in place for certain marine engines and antique vehicles but the info is so vague Ive yet to find anyone that knows what it means or how to get the waivers.
    I agree If you want to market a product it should stand on its own merits, but the ag industry has found a way to get the goverment to mandate their product and make the public pay for it whether they use it or not.
    Look up info on E85 transport sometime, its corrosive properties have that industry worried enough that its not allowed to be piped or shipped in systems that ship normal fuel, has to have its own pipes and tankers.
    Ethanol is an Oxidizer, doesnt need moisture or oxygen to create corrosion.

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  4. #13
    Jr. Apprentice
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    San Antonio, TX
    Posts
    25

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    Quote Originally Posted by tbplus10 View Post
    Mike if ya ever want to read some real interesting stuff about E-85 or Ethanol in general google " E-85 FAA and EPA".
    Outside of aviation circles no one paid much attention to the fact the EPA reversed its fuel policies for Ethanol use in aircraft engines due to proven corrosion issues after the FAA put pressure on the EPA and threatened to take the issue to congress.
    The EPA admitted ethanol was behind corrosion issues in auto, marine, small engine, and gas powered aircraft engines. But their decision was the public could just eat the added cost as long as their policies were followed. The FAA stuck it to them hard but the changes only affect aircraft.
    The EPA has put waivers in place for certain marine engines and antique vehicles but the info is so vague Ive yet to find anyone that knows what it means or how to get the waivers.
    I agree If you want to market a product it should stand on its own merits, but the ag industry has found a way to get the goverment to mandate their product and make the public pay for it whether they use it or not.
    Look up info on E85 transport sometime, its corrosive properties have that industry worried enough that its not allowed to be piped or shipped in systems that ship normal fuel, has to have its own pipes and tankers.
    Ethanol is an Oxidizer, doesnt need moisture or oxygen to create corrosion.
    Thanks for the info. I'll have to check that article out.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Well I finished my E85 experiment this evening. I went back to Austin today to see the grand baby and stopped and filled the truck up on the way back. Ironically, it took almost exactly the same amount to fill it up today as it did last time. On the previous tank of unleaded, I ran 360 miles. On this tank of E85, the same amount only took me 320 miles. The DIC was showing 12 mpg when I filled up. Before I got on the interstate to go to Austin, it was showing 11.1 mpg after in-town driving. I ran about 120 miles or so today of straight highway driving up and down I35. If the cost differential was larger, say 60 cents to over 1.00 dollar, I would consider running it again but with just the 40 cent differential, no, not worth it. Several places I've passed here that have E85 have a smaller differential, some as small as 20 cents.

  5. #14

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    Not only that, but your engine will run hotter on E85 ... so you could make an argument that it will wear the engine out earlier, so even if it were break-even with Gasoline on a mile-per-gallon vs. cost-per-gallon = cost-per-mile comparision ... it still would mean that your engine isn't going to last as long, all things being equal.

    Steve
    10 Chevy Traverse LT AWD
    02 Chevy Trailblazer LS (110K+ miles - loaded except for 4WD - WRECKED!)
    99 Chevy Cavalier LS (105K+ miles - commuter car)
    78 Chevy Suburban Silverado (454, 3/4 ton)
    62 GMC 3/4 ton Pickup (350 police interceptor)

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    * I've been saying for years that I was going to change my username, and I finally did.

  6. #15
    Jr. Apprentice
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    San Antonio, TX
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    ^Hadn't thought about that. It had to be running hot today. I saw 111 degrees on the thermometer as we were going by the Longhorns' stadium on the way up.

  7. #16

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    That's just based on my understanding of the fact that alcohol burns hotter than gasoline.

    Now it burns more pure and cleaner too, but if your going to take that argument then you have to adjust in the r energy that goes into making the ethanol ... starts looking pretty bad for ethanol. Unless you're an Iowa corn farmer.

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