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  1. #11
    Sr. Engineer Dana W's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RayVoy View Post
    Now this you are going to have to explain to me.

    34 psi is going to be 34 psi, I don't care if your using air (which is 78% nitrogen), pure nitrogen or oil, 34 psi is going to read 34 psi.
    That only applies to pressure measured while hot as compared to tires with air for the same ambient temperature and milage. Nitrogen runs cooler. That's all.

  2. #12
    Jr. Engineer Jamm3r's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WorthFlorida View Post
    It's air, no nitrogen. When I bring it in for the next oil change I'll have it checked out but that may not be for another three months.
    Heh... air without nitrogen... seems to me I have a tank of that for my cutting torch, says Oxygen on it...

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atmosph...th#Composition


    Quote Originally Posted by WorthFlorida View Post
    By magic the reading came down and it now reads usually 1-2 PSI higher than the others. A day later I checked all tires with a a dial gauge and had all of them reading the same PSI by removing or adding air but the DIC still had four different readins. The next few mornings I check the DIC and all read 1-2 PSI between them but that one tire will read at least 1 psi higher. Evening when the tires are hot and running (35-36 PSI), however, the purpose of the TPM is the monitor the pressure and if you lose around 20-25% of the PSI you get the flag.
    The TPMS sensors do not transmit often, and sometimes the transmissions aren't received by the BCM. It is likely that the high reading you got was stale.
    Minneapolis area - 1997 K2500 regular cab long bed + 8.5' Western Unimount plow + modified transmission + 2nd battery + modified camper charge circuit + 1971 Cayo camper -and- 2004 4x4 Suburban 2500 8.1 + Maxbrake controller + 2nd battery + modified trailer charge circuit + Reese receiver, pulls 30' Airstream trailer

  3. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dana W View Post
    That only applies to pressure measured while hot as compared to tires with air for the same ambient temperature and milage. Nitrogen runs cooler. That's all.
    Ok, so your saying, start with 34 psi of air in the left front tire and put 34 psi of nitrogen in the right front tire, drive for 50 miles and take tire pressure readings. Your saying, the tire with nitrogen will read lower than the tire with "air".

    Ok, I'll accept that, the tire with nitrogen might read a little lower than the tire with air. But, it won't be by much, air is 78% nitrogen.
    Ray

    '09 Avalanche LTZ - Black
    '05 Envoy XL (sold)

  4. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by RayVoy View Post
    Now this you are going to have to explain to me.

    34 psi is going to be 34 psi, I don't care if your using air (which is 78% nitrogen), pure nitrogen or oil, 34 psi is going to read 34 psi.

    100% Nitrogen will not change pressure in any temperature.
    Yeah its kinda like whats heavier, a pound of gold or a pound of feathers...




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  5. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by the phantom View Post
    100% Nitrogen will not change pressure in any temperature.
    Incorrect. Nitrogen, being a natural element in our physical universe, it subject to all the same laws of physics as all the other elements. If you increase its temperature in a closed volume, it will expand and thus, increase the pressure in said closed volume.
    Clint (TX) 2001 Silverado LS 4.8L auto 2wd ECSB [GARAGE]
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  6. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by McClintoc View Post
    Incorrect. Nitrogen, being a natural element in our physical universe, it subject to all the same laws of physics as all the other elements. If you increase its temperature in a closed volume, it will expand and thus, increase the pressure in said closed volume.
    McClintoc is correct. Let end these claims about Nitrogen but change it to what Nitrogen does for you.

    I just replaced the tires on my wife's Murano. They were filled with Nitrogen from day one and at 48K miles I replaced the tires with the same OEM brand, Bridgestone Dueler H/T 687, that have a UTQG of only 300. Unreal, they should have lasted 30K. For three years I never had to add air, tires were rotated maybe two times and pressures were checked at each oil change. I credit the longevity to Nitrogen and some to allot of I-95 driving. The tires just do not loose pressure as our breathable air. When I bough my new 2012 Silverado, the service advisor was not even sure if the nitro machine worked anymore and the tire dealer did even offer it. It seems that the Nitrogen fill (extra profit) is just not being offered much anymore.

  7. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by McClintoc View Post
    Incorrect. Nitrogen, being a natural element in our physical universe, it subject to all the same laws of physics as all the other elements. If you increase its temperature in a closed volume, it will expand and thus, increase the pressure in said closed volume.
    I guess what I was trying to say is that the pressure increase using Nitrogen is less than regular air with increase in temperature. I agree that the elements are subject to the same laws but they all do not give the same result. If that was true then all elements would freeze at 32 degrees like water or all things would boil at 212degrees. Everything has its own rate at which it expands contracts ect. This is why I suggested that the pressure does not change with temperature increase that our tires will see. I think @RayVoy example is perfect in explaining this. I would bet if you used his example you would see more of change in the regular air tire on a digital tire gauge compared to the Nitrogen tire. Probably not enough though to change ride characteristics ect. Nitrogen is cheap so thats why tire shops can "sell" you on the theorys behind it. Is it really worth it? Probably not unless you can get it for nothing IMO.

    I use nitrogen at work to purge gas through gas lines.. Its used because the molecules are larger than air and when introduced into a gas line it becomes a Heavy slug to move the lighter air out of an open end of pipe. The natural gas is then put behind the "slug" of nitrogen keeping the air and gas seperate.

    We also use it for testing new pipelines.. The new gas mains that I work on are tested at a minimum of 90lbs. for an hour. When I use air compressor air the pressure actually drops about a pound or two over the course of an hour after its change in temperature from being in the ground.. When we test with Nitrogen it doesnt change at all over the course of an hour. I have to document any change in pressure and the utility does not allow any drop in pressure when using nitrogen because of this characteristic. But we generally use an air compressor because of its conveneince and its generally done for an integrity test of the pipeline and not used to find real tiny leaks.
    Last edited by the phantom; 02-15-2014 at 09:15 AM.

  8. #18
    Sr. Engineer Dana W's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RayVoy View Post
    Ok, so your saying, start with 34 psi of air in the left front tire and put 34 psi of nitrogen in the right front tire, drive for 50 miles and take tire pressure readings. Your saying, the tire with nitrogen will read lower than the tire with "air".

    Ok, I'll accept that, the tire with nitrogen might read a little lower than the tire with air. But, it won't be by much, air is 78% nitrogen.
    I am not sayin' it, science says it. Molecular Nitrogen is less dense than oxygen, or even natural air, and can't hold as much heat energy. An inflated nitrogen tire even weighs less, of course it ain't much, but this trick comes from racers, and those guys will pay hundreds of thousands of dollars for a hand full of horsepower.

    For us street jockeys, it's just a thing we can say we do while havin' a beer with the guys.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by the phantom View Post
    100% Nitrogen will not change pressure in any temperature.
    Yeah its kinda like whats heavier, a pound of gold or a pound of feathers...
    Wrong, all gasses change pressure at ALL temperatures.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by the phantom View Post
    I guess what I was trying to say is that the pressure increase using Nitrogen is less than regular air with increase in temperature.
    That is right. The less mass a gas has, the less it will expand when heated. It sounds like you said it backwards before.

  9. #19

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    [QUOTE=the phantom;606840
    I use nitrogen at work to purge gas through gas lines.. Its used because the molecules are larger than air and when introduced into a gas line it becomes a Heavy slug to move the lighter air out of an open end of pipe. The natural gas is then put behind the "slug" of nitrogen keeping the air and gas separate.[/QUOTE]

    In the air conditioning and refrigerant industry, nitrogen is used to flush and clean the copper lines that might have been contaminated or when an A/C unit is replaced with a modern unit using where the refrigerant is changing to any of the new ozone friendly compounds.

  10. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dana W View Post
    An inflated nitrogen tire even weighs less, of course it ain't much,.
    Let's get real guys, air has an average molecular weight of 29, nitrogen has a molecular weight of 28.02. Do you know why they are so close?

    THE AIR WE BREATH IS 78% NITROGEN.

    You fill a tire with air which is 78% nitrogen, or you fill a tire with 100% nitrogen. Do you really think that you, or your tire, can tell the difference.

    I agree, racers use nitrogen, also, did you know that airline companies use nitrogen in the tires on their planes.

    And why?????????? There is no oxygen. Nitrogen will not burn. The 21% oxygen that is in "air" will burn and it will fuel a fire. Something you do not want on a plane, or a race car.

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