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Thread: You're choice for Oil?
02-15-2014, 09:07 AM #11
I use Mobile 1 in my new truck but conventionals in all my other vehicles just because of price. A testing labratory near me did a test like 18 years ago on the oils that were on the market at the time.. Im not sure where most ended up but I do know Mobile 1 came out on top.. I dont have the details of the test anymore since it was a while ago but I remember they did have 8 engines on stands and one of there final tests with the engine was to drain the oil and run it. Remember the old Slick 50 claims??
IMO I would think its important to have an oil in todays engines that would not become fine mist that ends up in the intake. It seems various owners of the AFM engines are having oil consumption issues and I would think the non-existance of misting characteristics of an oil would be of importance here. Not sure how possible it is though.
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02-15-2014, 09:49 AM #12
While one may not feel that the dexos thing is marketing, it is nothing more than the combination of GM 4718M and GM 6094M oil specifications. Nothing really new. And the dexos spec does not address ethanol use as well as ILSAC GF-5 spec, which is surprising because of the push by GM of flex fuel vehicles. It outlines a boil off or NOACK limit of 12%, which is a slightly lower standard than the traditional API SN and ILSAC GF-5 specs of 15%, which all are too high for my comfort. Most synthetics off the shelf, and the boutique oils especially, beat the 12% threshold comfortably, even if they are not "approved".
The biggest problem that an OEM has is owners not using a quality oil. Many auto owners will throw just about any oil in the engine, as long as it's cheap, and a lot of quick lube places will have a sub par bulk oil they put in. By proclaiming a spec standard, they hope to mitigate that. It is marketing. You "market" a standard or idea to plant that idea into the consumer mind. And it has worked so well, that they may not buy a product that is not on the "approved" list while at the same time exceeding the standard. In that case, the OEM wins on a couple of levels... their vehicles do not have substandard oil being used in them and they get a cut from the dexos labeling as a bonus.
I have no problem with the standard. I use an oil that exceeds the API SN, ILSAC GF-5, and dexos 1 standards. But it is not on the "approved" list. The standard is good, but I don't worship at the First Church of the Dexos Oil.Hey there, VA, what do ya' say? How many vets did you kill today?
02-15-2014, 01:00 PM #13
I only know about my engine now 2 yrs with the mobil 1 dexos GM spec. and it is operating better than the mobil 1 with out this spec. especially with the very cold temps. I wish GM came out with this change 13 years ago... the only problem I had with out the dexos spec was , engine noises when on a cold start...that is now long gone !
could be owners using cheap oil has created some engine damage with these newer engines[oil use]..also the fast lube places using cheap oil and charging customers for synthetic with cheap oil filters.
since I am the only person touching my vehicles and keep them for a decade or two I have my own testing data.
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02-15-2014, 01:10 PM #14
I am in no way denigrating the use of a dexos approved, be it M1, QS, PP, or whatever. I am only stating that one should not overlook other oils, especially the full synthetics that publish that they meet or beat the dexos spec but are not on the list. The options are pretty big and there are a lot of oils, approved or not, that do an excellent job and exceed the demands of these engines. If some will only use a dexos "approved" oil, then live long a prosper. Just find a quality oil that is a good value. The on sale QSUD at Menard's would be hard to beat at $2.99 a quart.
But we all know, that many owners are notorious for buying some no name 99 cent oil at the local convenience store and throwing it in when the oil light comes on the dash. Even with the dexos spec, many will not even read the owners manual to give a rip and realize that there even is a GM spec. The folks who make an INFORMED decision and decide to use a high quality oil that is not on the approved list usually have nothing to worry about. Neither does the OEM. It is the owners that know nothing more than how to turn the key on and put it in drive that GM has to deal with. So, they cover their hind end a little with an engine oil spec in hopes it does some good. The owners that obsess over using the best oils and lubes make the corporate folks at GM happy, even if those oils are not on the dexos approved list.
02-15-2014, 08:07 PM #15
If I owned an oil lubricating company that produced an oil that is equal or better than the GM dexos spec you better believe I would pay GM to put that DEXOS logo on my product. this DEXOS engine oil works ... with these GM truck/suv engines...
02-15-2014, 09:03 PM #16
All depends on who you are marketing to. In the case of my supplier, Schaeffer, they are not primarily marketing to the general retail crowd but focusing the majority of their attention on commercial markets, so having their oil on the approved list doesn't take as much of their attention. To keep their customers happy, they have products that will meet the spec, they just don't see it as cost effective to take it a step further and get "approved" status. Other brands that end up on Wally World shelves and cater primarily to the individual retail market, then it makes sense and is a justified cost of doing business to pay to be on the dexos approved list.
And let's take a look at how Schaeffer stacks up against Mobil 1, QS, Pennz, and the others.....
It compares equally or better than the dexos approved oils in the PQIA analysis.
Take close notice to the level of Molydenum Dysulfide in the Schaeffer 9000 supreme. No one else even comes close. Moly is a proven friction fighter that was originally developed for military use. One of the reasons Schaeffer was the company that developed the lubes for the Apache helicopter.
You can check out about benefits of moly here... http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/moly-basics/
Now you have an idea why I use Schaeffer in my commercial equipment and vehicles, and also in my Silverado. I would have no problem using a number of the oils on the approved list (especially the Quaker State and Pennzoil stuff) if I wasn't using Schaeffer. But the Schaeffer is a better value to me, since I also get their products on my commercial account.
Last edited by Cowpie; 02-15-2014 at 09:14 PM.
02-15-2014, 11:18 PM #17
in the Schaeffer 9000 supreme this has some odd ball additives compared to the other oils ..
moly is in the mobil1 at 85 compared to the Schaeffer 9000 supreme of 309 .. not much difference with that .. but this oil you use does have very odd additives ...
I do not say your choice is not good,,,, again I am stating my choice is from my test data with my engine over a period of 14 years and 150,000miles.
I know of others that use royal purple and they have the oil tested ... these engines are commercial heavy equipment machines. they also use these oils in their personal vehicles and also find they work with no wear or testing results of wear....
your oil with those odd additives is a question that I will try to find some answers to...
At $11.00 / qt it better work !
Last edited by j cat; 02-15-2014 at 11:31 PM.
02-15-2014, 11:55 PM #18
Ok, would you list the "odd" additives please. You base a decision on 14 years and 150,000 miles, I base mine on roughly 40 years and over 4 million commercial truck miles (along with thousands of hours on ag equipment) that I have personally under my belt. Just two of my vehicles log more miles in one year than your 150,000 miles. I probably have more oil sample testings on record than most people have lifetime number of oil changes on all of their personal vehicles they have owned. The 85 to 309 moly is substantial, not miniscule. Look at all the other oils levels of moly as a comparison. And I am not fully convinced that you understand the benefits of moly. Did you read the links?
Again, you claim "odd" additives, but you do not mention what they are. Sodium? Oh, like Valvoline, Royal Purple, and a host of others. How about Antimony? Oil soluble Antimony is a an additive that reduces oxidation of oil, a major issue with DOD/AFM engines. If you knew used oil testing methodology, nitration and oxidation is one of the tests on how an oil holds up. Might be a good idea if you read up some more on oil composition and the effects of various components of the add packs. One of dexos primary requirements is reduction in oxidation. Schaeffer addressed that quite nicely in their 5w30 dexos compliant oil. Doesn't seem like the others felt it was a nice touch. Well, Valvoline added a couple of PPM of Antimony also. But, that's ok... some of them are on the "approved" list, and that's all that matters, right?
I can understand how some might think that Schaeffer, or rather, their oil is odd ball. They do not splash themselves all over the TV and other retail venues like the others. No need to, considering the market they primarily focus on... commercial business market. They have been making oils and lubes longer than anyone in N.America. Longer than Mobil or anyone... since 1839. They were recently listed as one of the top 500 technological advanced companies in N. America. Not bad for a family run oil company in the game for 175 years. They have the on record distinction of being the oil used in the first Cummins engine to ever go over 1 million certified miles without an overhaul, on 24,000 mile oil changes, in 1985. And a Nissan pickup with 691,000 certified miles on it before a major engine repair. Or a Ford Econoline van that racked up over 1 million miles, certified, without a major engine repair. Video at youtube showing the tear down inspection of that engine.
Yeah, I'll take the odd ball oil. And I will sleep well at night. Not sure where you got the $11 a quart at. I am looking at the price list from my Schaeffer rep and I see the Schaeffer 9003D 5w30 synthetic still listed at $67.80 for a case of 12 quarts. Same as I paid on my last invoice. Oh... and unlike some of the boutique oils on the market, Schaeffer ships my oil and lube orders to my house free of charge. Probably unfair to state that. Schaeffer only ships free on orders over $375. Most of my orders exceed $1000. Go thru a lot of oil, additives, greases, lubes and such when you are in business.
Last edited by Cowpie; 02-16-2014 at 12:50 AM.
02-16-2014, 08:55 AM #19
- Join Date
- Feb 2014
- Blue Springs, MO
I've exclusively used Valvoline oils dating back to my '87 Suburban. I used standard 30w in it, partial synthetic 5w30 in my 94 S-10, and full synthetic in the '03 Quadrasteer. I'll use full synthetic in the new truck as well. I only use Wix oil filters.2003 GMC Sierra 1500HD
2003 Silverado 1500 Quadrasteer - Stolen and Totaled
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02-16-2014, 03:12 PM #20
this Schaeffer 9000 supreme 12 qt 5-30wt delivered to my house is 137 USD..
I get 12 qts of the Mobil 1 5-30wt for 52 USD... why pay more if it works... I go 8,000miles between oil changes... perhaps if I had a Diesel and did a lot of x country then the 20,000 oil change interval would be a plus.
The diesel owners do like this product...they also like/ use other oils ...
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