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  1. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve View Post
    Yeah, here is one of the "ignition deaths" that is talked about in the media.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/03/bu...shes.html?_r=0



    The death of anyone's child is a tradegy, but let's look at the facts.

    • She was legally drunk!
    • Not wearing her seatbelt!
    • DRIVING AT 69 MPH in a 25 MPH ZONE


    GM SETTLED WITH THIS FAMILY! Maybe she bounced off a curb or fell asleep and her hand collapsed down on the ignition ... it was 4 am after all. While still a horrible thing, it's not the same thing as Grandma's ignition getting shut off on the way to church and getting stuck on some train tracks, is it?
    When I saw the story on the world news they didnt say she was legally drunk or doing 69 in a 25. Obviously trying to make it look like she wasnt all that much at fault. But like you said Steve, It is tragedy no matter what.

    They just said tonight the pin in the tumbler was 15% short on the affected ignitions. When they corrected the problem with new ignitions they never changed the part numbers of the ignitions so mechanics didnt know which ones were in the vehicles DUHHH!!




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  2. #12

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    @the phantom I get what you are saying and I am in no way blaming any of this on the drivers. Those drivers that have been killed are most definitely victims. All I am saying is that there were other factors at play with those that have died. Is there a list out there that has all the documented incidents of GM cars shutting off? I am curious as to how many of these cars shut off under otherwise normal driving conditions and none of those drivers died. The ones who did die were in more precarious situations with other factors at play. Again, I'm not trying to exonerate GM from any of this, I'm mostly playing devil's advocate.
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  3. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by the phantom View Post
    When I saw the story on the world news they didnt say she was legally drunk or doing 69 in a 25. Obviously trying to make it look like she wasnt all that much at fault. But like you said Steve, It is tragedy no matter what.

    They just said tonight the pin in the tumbler was 15% short on the affected ignitions. When they corrected the problem with new ignitions they never changed the part numbers of the ignitions so mechanics didnt know which ones were in the vehicles DUHHH!!
    That's one of the problems, people come to this type of situation with too many biases in how they look at it.

    Yeah, there is no excuse for them not issuing a new part number on this. I do happen to know a parts/service director at a big dealership so I'm going to ask him about that.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by McClintoc View Post
    @the phantom I get what you are saying and I am in no way blaming any of this on the drivers. Those drivers that have been killed are most definitely victims. All I am saying is that there were other factors at play with those that have died. Is there a list out there that has all the documented incidents of GM cars shutting off? I am curious as to how many of these cars shut off under otherwise normal driving conditions and none of those drivers died. The ones who did die were in more precarious situations with other factors at play. Again, I'm not trying to exonerate GM from any of this, I'm mostly playing devil's advocate.
    Plus, very sadly ... they're dead so we don't know every single detail in their case. Like I said before, how do we know that someone didn't fall asleep and have their hand come down on it (I've seen people fall asleep at the wheel before)? Maybe they were messing with the key ring trying to take one off (I've done that)? Maybe they were texting as well? I just don't know. We're dealing with 13 deaths, and I forget the number of crashes overall. I think we can learn more from those actually because the drivers can tell us what happened. One lady on the news reported that her Cobalt turned off when she was on some train tracks, but luckily she figured out what was going on and restarted.

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  4. #14

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    Quote Originally Posted by McClintoc View Post
    I'm mostly playing devil's advocate.
    I gotch ya.. I play devils advocate a LOT!! myself. In fact it often gets me into trouble because people always think im against them when I do that. But it often gives you a better perspective of a situation when you put yourself in the devils shoes. IMO it often allows yourself to make good decisions when either taking a side or it even allows someone to understand the other persons point. The media is really making GM look horrible in this whole thing and I will admit I got suckered some into emphasizing with the victims here.
    Last edited by ChevyFan; 04-02-2014 at 09:01 PM.

  5. #15

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    However, it is possible that some of these wrecks were by good drivers whos key got turned off by inertia as they turned a corner and just happened to be at a bad spot in the road.

  6. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve View Post
    However, it is possible that some of these wrecks were by good drivers whos key got turned off by inertia as they turned a corner and just happened to be at a bad spot in the road.
    Around here its hard to find a good spot in the road the way this winter has damaged them

  7. Likes zuki82 liked this post
  8. #17

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    I watched some of this today. They were hammering her with questions, they wanted a yes or no answer. She would not give them the answer they wanted, she kept her cool and tried to explain. They were not having any of it. They asked her why an engineer who hid some of the initial information was not fired. How can she answer that? she was not in the position to fire the person, chances are she did not even know of the issue. why not call in John F smith or Rich wagoner in, they were ceo's during that time

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  9. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by McClintoc View Post
    Didn't she just get the job as CEO like a month ago? I'm not so sure it's fair to judge someone who just took the position then has to sit for congressional hearings. I think the person who was the CEO during the timeframe of the faulty switches should be the one in the seat. I don't think it's fair to hold the current GM accountable for what was done 10 or so years ago. Plenty of executives and engineers have come and gone in the past decade and there was the bailout in between. GM today isn't necessarily the same GM as 10 years ago. Yes, GM should answer for what has happened but that doesn't mean the current people are the most responsible. Either way, it's a huge mess and I agree that hopefully this will change some internal operations at the company.
    just remember that she is an electrical engineer. she has been working for GM for 33 years..

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by McClintoc View Post
    That's one thing that ticks me off when people talk about this issue. Idiots like to bring up the government bailout and they act like GM is a horrible company, never grasping the fact that other auto makers have had serious issues recently. Toyota had the gas pedal ordeal. Ford had the engine fires and the Explorer/Firestone debacle. No auto maker is infallible.
    the reason the bail out was brought up is because before the bailout was to be handed out , GM was asked if it had any liabilities..They did not give out this financial information as was required.

    - - - Updated - - -

    It appears that the ignition switch was one problem . the other problem NHTSA is now investigating along with GM not providing required safety data is the AIR BAGS !

    with NO power on , the air bags should deploy with in 60 sec.of power loss . It is very possible that millions of vehicles have defective air bags.

    - - - Updated - - -

    the other reason or perhaps "the" reason GM did not change the part number is because when they do , they must report this change to NHTSA.. this is one of the things that NHTSA is now investigating.

    with the senators of both parties united about this issue maybe we have some hope that these elected politicians can actually create some use full legislation to make our country a safe secure place to live.

    Ms Barra/GM has caused this effect..

  10. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by j cat View Post
    the reason the bail out was brought up is because before the bailout was to be handed out , GM was asked if it had any liabilities..They did not give out this financial information as was required.
    This is correct and perfectly fine in terms of current government inquiry. What I was mainly talking about are all the Internet tough guys that bring it up as a separate issue just so they can act like they have multiple reasons to trash talk GM.

    Quote Originally Posted by j cat View Post
    maybe we have some hope that these elected politicians can actually create some use full legislation
    Sadly, you hope for way too much.

  11. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by j cat View Post
    just remember that she is an electrical engineer. she has been working for GM for 33 years..

    - - - Updated - - -



    the reason the bail out was brought up is because before the bailout was to be handed out , GM was asked if it had any liabilities..They did not give out this financial information as was required.

    - - - Updated - - -

    It appears that the ignition switch was one problem . the other problem NHTSA is now investigating along with GM not providing required safety data is the AIR BAGS !

    with NO power on , the air bags should deploy with in 60 sec.of power loss . It is very possible that millions of vehicles have defective air bags.

    - - - Updated - - -

    the other reason or perhaps "the" reason GM did not change the part number is because when they do , they must report this change to NHTSA.. this is one of the things that NHTSA is now investigating.

    with the senators of both parties united about this issue maybe we have some hope that these elected politicians can actually create some use full legislation to make our country a safe secure place to live.

    Ms Barra/GM has caused this effect..
    Yes, just what we need. MORE government regulations.

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