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  1. #1

    Default Obama Had Doomed GM

    It is amazing how quickly the government put General Motors on the path to liquidation. When Bob Lutz left the writing was on the wall. I actually thought he was ill; he would never be before the Volt and next generation trucks and Corvette came out.

    But he was in the room with the government and Rick Waggoner, another visionary auto executive, and knew what was happening. They were caught in a financial bind not of their own making while furiously trying to make GM competitive in its products.

    Now they are replaced with people who have no experience or interest in cars. People who rather take the train. Rather than make a vision work, they are contracting to the point where they aren't able to support the infrastructure necessary to operate.

    There really is no hope. Like a patient who needs to be rushed to the hospital, the ambulance won't get there in time. The earliest it could be dispatched is in another 4 years...and that is way too late. Will it be propped up past the 2012 election? Possibly. Will it exist for the 2016 election? About the same chance as me winning the Mega Millions or Powerball
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  2. #2

    Default How do you blame Obama?

    Quote Originally Posted by DavidNJ View Post
    It is amazing how quickly the government put General Motors on the path to liquidation. When Bob Lutz left the writing was on the wall. I actually thought he was ill; he would never be before the Volt and next generation trucks and Corvette came out.

    But he was in the room with the government and Rick Waggoner, another visionary auto executive, and knew what was happening. They were caught in a financial bind not of their own making while furiously trying to make GM competitive in its products.

    Now they are replaced with people who have no experience or interest in cars. People who rather take the train. Rather than make a vision work, they are contracting to the point where they aren't able to support the infrastructure necessary to operate.

    There really is no hope. Like a patient who needs to be rushed to the hospital, the ambulance won't get there in time. The earliest it could be dispatched is in another 4 years...and that is way too late. Will it be propped up past the 2012 election? Possibly. Will it exist for the 2016 election? About the same chance as me winning the Mega Millions or Powerball
    GM didn't get in trouble since his election in January, they were already in trouble when Obama was elected! If you were a true capitalist, you would say let them fail. True capitalism means that only the strongest survive, and some necessarily fail. To blame the government for GM's failing is the product of Faux news and Rush.

    If GM wanted to control their own destiny, they shouldn't have come to the government with their hats in their hands.

  3. #3

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by sfarris View Post
    GM didn't get in trouble since his election in January, they were already in trouble when Obama was elected! If you were a true capitalist, you would say let them fail. True capitalism means that only the strongest survive, and some necessarily fail. To blame the government for GM's failing is the product of Faux news and Rush.

    If GM wanted to control their own destiny, they shouldn't have come to the government with their hats in their hands.

    Yes Yes this is true. But lets see how this plays out. Big company promotes Big Canidate in big election or lets say the Union did. Funny nothing was said about all these bailouts till the end of the election. Then who comes to the rescue superman, the great hope, the strong arm of the government. Hey you backed our party we will make sure you get your cut before the secured creditors get theirs. They are re writing contracts. This is not fair and it is breaking the laws set forth in our constitution. I dont give a crap who is the one doing it black, white, yellow, red, or blue in color. The fact is let them go throu a normal bankruptsey and get on with life stop paying back your supporters and get on with it. Blame FOX all you want but at least they give it to you like it is. There are no smoke and mirrors. I dont respect a president that is out for fame and being publicised. At least Bush could take being bashed and get out and do it agiain the next day. The fact is our prez dont even look out for America he is out there telling the world we are sorry. I cant wait till 2012 to see what kind of nut we will get next. I mean man come on where is your American spirit. We cant be america if we abandon the simple laws that were set forth in our CONSTITUTION.
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  4. #4
    Legend

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    Default

    Gm was doomed from the minute the truck and suv craze hit, the bean counters saw $$$ and where bound to run it till they couldnt squeez another cent from the big trucks, the problem was they werent willing to expand and be ready when the economy, and overinflation of wages and prices would catch up. Now it is taking too long to get vehicles to market, just look at the Camaro, it was built off of existing architecture and it still took 4 years to get it to the public, they should be ashamed of themselves. Obama just gave them the kick in the head they needed. Yes it sucks that tens of thousands of jobs were lost, but like I said, you would have had to been an idiot to think that trucks would be the wave of the future, dont get me wrong MY main vehicle is a Suburban and will always be some sort of truck, but I also have a NEED for the Suburban not a want. GM ignored small cars, and it bit them in the ass, and took a big chunk out!!
    99 K1500 Suburban LT "THE BEAST"
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  5. #5

    Default

    tis is all bs Obamma did not cause any of this banking realestate or auto problem it was all pre set to happen by the bush administration and now obamma is going to need all politicians to help save this country republicans and democrats or were going to the next india living in shacks wondering were our next meal is coming from so stop the blaiming and start helping

    2006 GMC 1500 Long Bed Vortec 4.3
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  6. #6

    Default I agree!

    Quote Originally Posted by sfarris View Post
    GM didn't get in trouble since his election in January, they were already in trouble when Obama was elected! If you were a true capitalist, you would say let them fail. True capitalism means that only the strongest survive, and some necessarily fail. To blame the government for GM's failing is the product of Faux news and Rush.

    If GM wanted to control their own destiny, they shouldn't have come to the government with their hats in their hands.
    I love GM vehicals and always have but it is not the gov. fault. Greed on all levels< now that is a discussion!
    Terry
    2007 Suburban LT2
    #7 in a long line of Chevy trucks

  7. #7
    Sr. Apprentice Bikeman's Avatar
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    Default

    hard to blame obama/gov for bailing out gm, they are just trying to band-aid the economy. Should gm totally fold it would likely plunge us into a full depression...rapidly. May be inevitable at this point anyway.

    GM, Ford, Chrysler all victoms of capitalism. They spent huge money developing new technoligies and then going threw the growing pains of putting them into production. Meanwhile the Japs were just copying it once the bugs were out, hence a more dependable car. Now toyo and honda are starting there own "new" stuff and there cars are seeing the dealer more often and not for oil changes.

    I would have liked to seen the gov put a tax or duty on foriegn cars, other countries do it. Irrelevent now.

    While I'm on a rant, I hate the some toyos and hondas are made in the states. Yes it does provide some jobs but it gives another reason for consumers to buy a foriegn car. "my toyo truck was made in the usa" yes it was but all the profits went over to the rice fields. Shame on us

  8. #8

    Default One US car company is not getting Bailout dough

    I haven't bought one of their products since college, and I sold them then. But one car company is making tons of hybrids, and didn't get a cent in bailouts- FORD!

    Perhaps because the Ford family still owns a stake, while GM and Chrysler are corporations who are in the business of pleasing shareholders- which means short term profits over long term planning. Dopy me just bought one of their hybrid trucks (great vehicle, by the way) and now I am holding part of the bag. I feel sorry for the little suppliers who will not recover from GM's goofs.

  9. #9

    Default

    First, GM has been a leading developer of new product. On Waggoner and Lutz, the product line has been getting better and better.

    The problem GM had was financial. The financial collapse hit companies with huge financed inventories hard; GM didn't have the reserves to deal with it. Why was GM weaker than Toyota? Well, $1500 in employee benefits negotiated as a deferred expense when the auto industry was a three company oligopoly and had over 1 million direct employees.

    At the time George Bush intervened, the Congress had passed and the financial markets, still reeling, would not have supported financing in bankruptcy. That had changed by the spring...so had the politics.

    The Obama administration was more interested in protecting the interests of the UAW then the investors or consumers. What is killing GM is not the bankruptcy or even the government ownership. What is killing it is disabling it product pipeline in a very competitive market where GM is still a bit behind the competition.

    Waggoner and Lutz could have overseen a GM in bankruptcy that would still deliver product. The clown show running the company now doesn't have a chance. Worse, it is being directed to build cars that can't be sold for the price of producing them.

    As far as the comments about SUVs and trucks: the were popular and profitable. GM is actually ahead of the curve on making them fuel efficient. That will likely end.

    It is that product development and marketing that is already killing the 'cool' cars and will focus on segments it can't win that will sink the GM. Chrysler is just a distribution arm for Fiat. Closed plants on owned land are a future real estate deal; others are domestic US assembly of Fiats. Ford? Do you really think Ford has earth shattering good engineering in its products? If so, which Ford product do you, an active participant in an auto-related forum, consider best in class?

    For GM there were the trucks in this forum, Corvette, Malibu, CTS, G8, etc. that where really either at the top or certainly there when price was considered.

  10. #10
    Jr. Mechanic dfhollums's Avatar
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    Default

    Until GM gets its butt out from under the thumb of the central government and operates as a true company there will not be a new Bowtie in my driveway. My wife would like a new Suburban and we have been Chevy fans for years, but when it comes time for her a new vehicle I will try and talk her into a Ford Expedition EL instead.

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