4-cyl TD's?

[DPDISXR4Ti]

I haven't kept up on this. Has GM had any recent discussions to do a 4-cyl TD engine? I seem to recall that might have been one of the initial objectives of the Fiat deal a couple years back, but I'll assume that idea is dead.

[DPDISXR4Ti]

Shall I assume no 4-cyl TD's are in GM's plans?

[phoebeisis]

I'm pretty sure GM already had very good 4 cyl TDs in Europe Asia,South America. They make a very good-mpg wise-mini/minivan-like Mazda 5-that get excellent hy mpg-over 45 mpg I think.It is called the Zafira made by Vaxhall-a GM company.

My memory could be wrong on this, but.

GM also traded some of its Euro 4 cyl TDs for some of Honda's V-6 with 5 speed trans.GM put them in the VUE from 2004-2007 I think.It made them quick little SUVs-7.3 0-60!!Honda didn't have small TDs back them I guess(that were Euro certified maybe??)

Charlie

[DPDISXR4Ti]

I'm pretty sure GM already had very good 4 cyl TDs in Europe Asia,South America.

I guess I should have clarified... Does GM have any 4-cyl TD plans for the USA market?

[phoebeisis]

I don't think they do now.The problem is GM now has-will have-an over 40 mpg hy-small car-the Cruze(spelled wrong) produced and sold in the USA.It gets over 40 mpg hy with a regular spark ignition motor.

A GM TDI with older Euro specs could get maybe 6-7 hy mpg better, but with current EPA regs it would only be about 3-4 hy mpg better-like the current VWs TDI. It would cost $2500 more, but wouldn't deliver hugely better mpg.

The problem is spark motors have gotten better, and TD have gotten worse because of the fuel the TD has to use to burn off the particles of soot in the particle filter. Hard to get good mpg when you are squirting raw fuel into the exhaust.

I don't think we'll see and small GM TD until a better way is found to remove soot particles from diesel exhaust.

Charlie

[DPDISXR4Ti]

I don't think we'll see and small GM TD until a better way is found to remove soot particles from diesel exhaust.

I think you're right. I've only gotten a little more interested in oil-burners lately as the price of the fuel has pulled back close to even with gasoline. But even with that, it'll take a long time to make up the difference of the increased up-front cost of the more expensive power plant.

[vncj96]

Actually 4cyl and all diesels have got tremendously clean, (the pickups dont even have cats anymore)the problem, just like a hybrid, is the cost for this fuel mileage. Look at the Jetta TDI, to go to the diesel from the standard motor will cost another 3 grand, and when you are looking at just getting a fuel effecient car 3000 is alot of gas money, not to mention that diesels are much more in detail to work on and the avarge shadetree mechanic doesnt know or want to deal with them. America has really shown it too that there just really isnt the market for small diesel motors, not like Europe anyway. And cost is too much for the low profit (if any) that GM, or Ford can deal with right now. Chrylser on the other might mbe able to do one, but thats only because of there new partner, but I still think it would be a slim chance. Another thing that slows down the diesel push is its infrastructure, the diesel producing plants are so old and outdated, diesel would jump dramatically for them to upgrade and update the plants.

[phoebeisis]

Another problem is a good Hybrid system-spark ignition- will beat a diesel in combined mpg. The Diesel-even with the fuel wasting to burn the particles-might win the hy mpg-by a tiny bit- but it will lose the city mpg by so much that the Hybrid wins in overall FE.The price-about $3000 more- is the same, so why buy the diesel which is a bit more complicated and harder to maintain and repair.

Just look at the new VW vs the new Prius .

Until a better way is found to get rid of soot, we won't have many small TDIs in the USA.

Charlie

[DPDISXR4Ti]

Actually 4cyl and all diesels have got tremendously clean, (the pickups dont even have cats anymore)

Sorry, but that's not correct. In fact, the diesel manufacturers have had to ADD catalysts back in recently, and that is largely what is responsible for the current crop of "clean diesels". Of course, this adds to the cost, weight, and negatively impacts fuel economy. The one positive about the 4 cyl TD's, as compared to the larger engines, is that they can produce their own amonia, negating the need for manual re-fill as currently required on the 6 and 8-cyl engines.