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View Poll Results: What should North American auto makers do to win back sales from foreign auto makers?

Voters
69. You may not vote on this poll
  • Increase fuel efficiency

    11 15.94%
  • Increase quality/reliability

    36 52.17%
  • Lower prices

    11 15.94%
  • Other

    11 15.94%
  • No opinion

    0 0%
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Thread: Buyer loyalty

  1. #11
    Jr. Mechanic
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    Cool ok, here I go...

    see, here is my opinion on this... I know I sound like I live in the 1970's and 1980's but I think GM really needs to upgrade the quality of their vehicles... I look at a 2007 chevy silverado and I see that it is a nice truck, but at the same time I see the 2007 toyota tundra as being a much higher quality vehicle. let's look at the technology put into both. The chevy silverado has a nice interior, the most useful and best looking in my opinion being the "true truck" interior. which is probably better than that on the toyota. However once you pop the hood and look at the mechanical bits there are some serious differences. The silverado runs on at best a 5.3 liter cast iron fuel injected pushrod V8 with individual ignition coils per cylinder. This design is powerful, but it is harder to get parts for than the old 5.7 liter gen IV LT1 motor (I think chevy should have gone to a gen V 5.7 LT1 instead of the gen IV 5.3 liter). also it gets bad gas mileage compared to it's horsepower and torque due to the fact that it is a pushrod motor made of cast iron. In comparison, the 2007 toyota tundra comes with at best a 5.7 liter all aluminum dual overhead cam fuel injected V8 with variable valve timing... which is a much higher quality motor that gets better gas mileage per horsepower/torque than the chevy due to variable valve timing and dual overhead cams. this engine is also lighter due to it being all aluminum, which due to it's high output gives this vehicle a very good power to weight ratio. If you continue to look at the vehicles you begin to notice that the silverado still uses pitman arm steering where as the tundra uses a rack and pinion system which gives the tundra better handling ability (it's basically just more responsive than the silverado). Also the tundra has all wheel disc brakes, where as the silverado has drums in the rear. this means that the brakes on the tundra provide more stopping power and also last longer due to a better design. the transmission on the silverado is only available in a five-speed where the tundra is available with a six speed. this also helps with towing, gas mileage, and performance. Now, the negative of the tundra is that it is hard to repair in the feild with common hand tools due to it's complex design (this atleast applies to the engine and transmission) but due to a better design, you have to repair it less often...

    Also, (this is where I start to rant) WHO THE HELL PUT'S DRUM BRAKES AND PUSHRODS ON A VEHICLE NOWADAYS!!! I MEAN FOR CRYING OUT LOUD IT'S 2007 ALREADY!!! I KNOW WE DON'T HAVE FLYING FUTURISTIC CARS, BUT WE COULD AT LEAST LEAVE THE ANCIENT TECHNOLOGY BEHIND!!! @*&@@#!!!!

  2. #12
    Jr. Mechanic
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    Well......ppettit........

    I have to a agree with your analysis......However I think that there is one item to the whole drum brakes and older technology thing......

    We American have only been in this gas price situation for what amounts to a small time in the auto industry. Even in the 70's and 80's gas was not as bad as it is today, Even in comparison.

    The Big 3 have screwed the American people in the earlier gas problem years, Pinto, Chevette K Cars....etc....now it's hard to correct some of that and make American want to buy USA when Toyota and the rest have not rested on their laurels, but continued to push the Big 3 to a foot race.

    The Big 3 IMO have not made the advances in technology that Toyota has as you remarked to maintain a lower price range, because of the America cost of production.

    Now don't get me wrong GM IMO has lead the industry in reliability and style for years, but it's hard not to ignore the other manufactures when your in a shopping situation.

    well so much for my Saturday morning Rant........

    what's the real fix.........get rid of half of the political people in Washington DC and we might be better off........

    Just my thoughts!!!
    Just Another Day in Paradise...

  3. #13
    Sr. Mechanic Skarch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ppettit2005 View Post
    also it gets bad gas mileage compared to it's horsepower and torque due to the fact that it is a pushrod motor made of cast iron.
    Actually, Pushrod is usually more fuel efficient than DOHC, thats how the Chevy V6's were getting honda I-4 mileage.

    I think honestly that both of them could use some schooling. Toyota will have legacy problems with the Tundra, b/c an aluminum block will not hold up to the stress of a serious work truck. The ones that are grocery getters will be fine, but the trailer hauling, overloaded workhorses will pinhole and bleed coolant, just like the 4-runners used to when the little I-4 was in them and way overtaxed. Toyota will also loose ground because parts are more expensive, and more difficult to find.

    GM should have gone with the Multiple Displacement engine, but run it off a bigger block, not the 5.3. You would have thought that all those 305 Camaros hanging out in junkyards would have raised a red flag....

    IMHO, both of them would have been better served to produce a 4-5 Litre turbo Diesel model. Can you imagine having better torque than either of the ones available currently, and with MDE tech, being able to pull mid 30's on the highway MPG?
    Josh

    2001 VW GTI 1.8T
    2005 VW Passat 1.8T - soon to be gone but not forgotten
    1997 Chevy Suburban 1500 5.7L - What have I gotten myself into?!?

  4. #14

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    I really don't see what all the fuss is about. Let's look at cold hard numbers. The LS4 used in the 07 Silverado is a much better engine than Toyota's 5.7. I have a customer that is a service tech at a Toyota stealership in Las Vegas, NV who has had to dramatically increase his trips for education out here because the new Tundra is total garbage. Not only was the truck itself over budget, but the new plant in Texas in which it is being built in was also over budget. It now appears that Toyota of America tried to save some money on the truck as both the engine and rear-end are having major issues including total replacement. Add into the equation that you only get one engine option with Toyota compared to several options with Chevy and you don't get a "cookie-cutter truck" from the world's best seller of cars and trucks for the last 76 years running.

    Before you start thinking that Toyota will pass GM as the world leader, take into consideration these 2 facts: 1) If it weren't for GM, Toyota would not be where they are, if existant at all. Therefore, Toyota's success is a pat on GM's back. Besides, look at all the product sharing: Pontiac Vibe is a Toyota Corolla Matrix, Corolla and Prizm, and even one that most people aren't aware of, Toyota's first MR2's would have never been made if it weren't for Lotus, who was owned by GM in the 80's which helped Pontiac make the Fiero using a cavalier frame, subframe, and pre-89 z24 v6. The brakes and suspension of the Fiero are Lotus design. What other GM badged car has the parking brake below the drivers door next to the seat on the floor? Ironic that those 2 cars came out at about the same time too. 2) GM just posted a profit for the first time in 6 quarters. Looks like they are getting a little momentum going.

    I also find it ironic that, with the exception of Hyundai and BMW, no manufacturer from other regions of the world offer better warranties (FoMoCo is an exception). Doesn't that say something about standing behind your products? Even BMW likes GM parts. The 6-speed auto in current production Beemer's is GM's 6T70 that is being utilized in a lot of GM's newer cars, trucks, and crossover SUV's. Plus, when was the last time anybody presold 8000+ vehicles? GM just did it for the Buick Enclave, the same vehicle that is the GMC Acadia/Saturn Outlook, and 2009 Chevy Traverse which will replace the Trailblazer. That 8k figure is just for the Buick badge. A lot of people attribute that to its looks alone. Anybody know what the numbers are for the GMC and Saturn badges? Add those to the Buick and you have one hot car that has a hard time passing 40k in price.

    If you look you will see that GM has addressed every option on the poll. The Aveo is the best selling car in its class mainly because you get fuel economy similar to the Prius at 1/3 the cost. And taking cost into consideration, isn't that more bang for your buck. The Aveo is also the cheapest in its class. Price out an Equally loaded Camry and Accord to the Malibu and you get more value, and warranty, in a Chevy. Plus, I've seen Malibu's with the 2.2 Ecotec acheiving average fuel economy as high as 37mph. What do you get with a Camry or Accord (soon to be extinct) hybrid?

    Now, take looks into consideration. Whoever said that the American cars look like rental cars was right. Do you know why? Because they are. I work in rental cars, and have for 5 1/2 years. Americans cars, regardless of how good they look, will always look like rental cars. That is because they are cheaper to purchase in fleet than imports. Now, have you seen the 2008 Malibu? MotorTrend declared that GM's design department was back from the dead. If you don't believe it, look at the Camaro and Enclave for more proof. You can't turn around a Global 500 business overnight, but GM is doing one hell of a job. We're even getting rwd fullsize cars.

    Prices are cheaper, fuel economy better, warranties the best, and looks being improved. Wasn't that the options on the poll. Those are all addressed by GM.

    I don't mean to go off on a rant or offend anybody, but this is what is really going on.

  5. #15
    Jr. Engineer Rumpamuro's Avatar
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    The Vortec 6000, or LQ4, is an iron/aluminum design and produces 300-325 hp (224-242 kW) and 360-370 ft·lbf (488-502 N·m). The Vortec 6000 LY6 shares the same bore and stroke as its LQ4 predecessor, and also features variable valve timing, The Vortec 6000 L76 a new version of the LQ4 is a Generation IV small block V8 truck engine and features variable cam phasing, along with Active Fuel Management. and just to get your rant polished off, you have the option of an Allison 6 speed LD Tranny.

  6. #16

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    Build it all here and we'll have more jobs and more money to buy expensive cars

  7. #17
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    I have always bought from the Big 3 but I definitely think GM should repay the bail out money since they are turning a profit again. My 2009 Silverado has been a good vehicle but I bought a 2011 Taurus instead of the new Buick LaCrosse because of the bailout. Maybe I was raised wrong but I don't like taking the money and getting a free pass. If it remains status quo (and it will probably will) the new GM will never see any of my money. Is their anyone else out there that shares this opinion?

  8. #18
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    Many thanks to all that support the big 3, and to all others I feel sorry for you j/k!!

    I think the biggest complaint I hear on a daily basis is the dealerships, I have gotten screwed enough in the past to know. This also motivated me to work on my own cars at my own expense while they are under warranty, those ASE kids who work in the dealers no nothing other than how to read there fancy $10,000 scanners. They have no common sense, and would have know idea how to even use a volt meter if they had to.

    I would like to see them come back with the Firebird, and trans am and put the LS9 in the new Colorado and I'd be happy.

  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bowtie Man View Post
    Build it all here and we'll have more jobs and more money to buy expensive cars
    This is a hard concept for many people to grasp; most of them in Congress. They try and stimulate the consumer driven economy buy making it possible for people to buy cheap. Since cheap and made in the USA are contradictions, our Congressional leaders think that you can stimulate the economy by purchasing foreign made goods on credit. Every body wins right? The foreign manufacturers make money, the people in the distribution chain make money, the credit card firms make BIG money while the American service industry work suffers. How many services will you consume if you are unemployed?

    Quote Originally Posted by donl View Post
    I have always bought from the Big 3 but I definitely think GM should repay the bail out money since they are turning a profit again. My 2009 Silverado has been a good vehicle but I bought a 2011 Taurus instead of the new Buick LaCrosse because of the bailout. Maybe I was raised wrong but I don't like taking the money and getting a free pass. If it remains status quo (and it will probably will) the new GM will never see any of my money. Is their anyone else out there that shares this opinion?
    No, I do not share your opinion and hopefully neither do the majority of people in this country. The only people that do not get a free pass are the people who manufacture the car and its components in this country. If you don't like the Government stepping in then direct your anger at the Government. GM's management were short sighted idiots in many ways. Why make the Nation and their workers pay for their stupidity. Put their ass in jail with the bankers and the Politicians that are in their hip pockets. But lets keep at least something made in the USA. (Sorry, a P.O.S. Ford does not count! LOL)
    86 911 Porsche Carrera
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    ​General Motors.
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  10. #20

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    I voted 'other' because there was no 'all of the above' option and that's what I feel is necessary.

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