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  1. #11
    Sr. Apprentice
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    louisiana
    Posts
    31

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    Well, it's happened. If you mod your PCM, you have just invalidated your warranty!

    See the excerpt from the PDF Below:

    "#09-06-04-026: Identifying Non-GM (Aftermarket)
    Engine and Transmission Calibrations for V8 Gas
    Engines - (May 18, 2009)
    Subject: Identifying Non-GM (Aftermarket) Engine and Transmission
    Calibrations for V8 Gas Engines
    Models: 2006-2009 GM Passenger Cars and Light Duty Trucks
    (Excluding Saab 9-7X)
    2006-2009 HUMMER H2, H3
    Equipped with V8 Gas Powered Engines Only
    Attention: This bulletin applies to V8 gas powered engines ONLY. For all other gas
    powered engine applications, refer to Corporate Bulletin Number
    08-06-04-033D. For diesel powered engines, refer to Corporate Bulletin
    Number 08-06-04-006C.
    General Motors is identifying an increasing number of engine, transmission and catalytic converter
    part failures that are the result of non-GM (aftermarket) engine and transmission control
    calibrations being used.
    When alteration to the GM-released engine or transmission control calibrations occurs, it subjects
    powertrain and driveline components (engine , transmission, transfer case, driveshaft and rear axle)
    to stresses that were not tested by General Motors. It is because of these unknown stresses, and the
    potential to alter reliability, durability and emissions performance, that GM has adopted a policy to
    cancel any remaining warranty coverage to the powertrain and driveline components whenever the
    presence of a non-GM (aftermarket) calibration is confirmed - even if the non-GM control module
    calibration is subsequently removed.
    Warranty coverage is based on the equipment and calibrations that were released on the vehicle at
    time of sale, or subsequently updated by GM. That’s because GM testing and validation matches the
    calibration to a host of criteria that is essential to assure reliability, durability and emissions
    performance over the life of the warranty coverage and beyond. Stresses resulting from calibrations
    different than those tested and released by GM can damage or weaken components, leading to poor
    performance and or shortened life.
    Additionally, non-GM (aftermarket) issued engine control modifications often do not meet the same
    emissions performance standards as GM issued calibrations. Depending on state statutes, individuals
    who install engine control module calibrations that put the vehicle outside the parameters of
    emissions certification standards may be subject to fines and/or penalties.
    This bulletin outlines a procedure to identify the presence of non-GM (aftermarket) calibrations. GM
    recommends performing this check whenever a hard part failure is seen on internal engine or
    transmission components, or before an engine assembly or transmission assembly is being replaced
    under warranty. It is also recommended that the engine calibration verification procedure be
    performed whenever diagnostics indicate that catalytic converter replacement is indicated.
    In May 2009, the PQC will begin piloting a process to confirm the ECM/PCM calibration is GM issued.
    Beginning on May 18, 2009, the PQC will require a picture of the engine calibration verification
    screen, as outlined in this bulletin, before authorizing any V8 gas powered engine replacement.
    If a non-GM calibration is found and verification has taken place through GM, the remaining
    powertrain and driveline warranty will be cancelled and notated in GMVIS and the dealership will be
    notified.

  2. #12

    Default

    This is a GM memo, meaning no matter what GM says you still have the same rights under the Magussen Moss Warranty act, they must prove the modification caused the failure. Magnussen Moss is a Federal act they have to abide by it doesnt care what any auto manufacturers internal repair decisions or memo's say.
    This particular memo also borders on Federal Clean air acts regardiing catalytic convertors and emmissions parts which are pretty cut and dried and they have no grey area to deviate from.
    Some people will be shown this memo when getting repairs at the dealership and assume it means they have no warranty, that would be a mistake on their part, they need to persue the issue with a mediator if this happens.
    This is also why you never make a change to a warrantied vehicle that cant easily be changed back to stock prior to bringing the vehicle in for any servicing even something as simple as an oil change, if you dont think the dealerships arent checking and documenting modifications of any type to your vehicle your mistaken.

  3. #13
    Sr. Apprentice
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    louisiana
    Posts
    31

    Default

    they must take a picture of the cvn # (Calibration Verification Number ) this changings everytime you reprogram it must match what they have in the ivory tower if not bad news

  4. #14

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by sgui View Post
    they must take a picture of the cvn # (Calibration Verification Number ) this changings everytime you reprogram it must match what they have in the ivory tower if not bad news
    You bring up a very interesting point. The CVN does change when a programmer is added. I'm wondering if the programmer changes it back when you perform an uninstall of the program?
    Jim

    2004 SILVERADO 2500HD LS
    Pro Comp Leveling Kit
    285-75-16 Cooper ST All Terrains
    Pro Comp Programmer
    Bilstein Shocks
    Linux Bed Liner
    Tinted Windows



    Other rides:

    1967 Landcruiser <350 Chevy>
    1970 Camaro
    1990 Geo Metro Convertible
    2007 FJ Cruiser

  5. #15

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by sgui View Post
    they must take a picture of the cvn # (Calibration Verification Number ) this changings everytime you reprogram it must match what they have in the ivory tower if not bad news
    Yes thats one of the methods being used for tracking but it goes back to the fact that they have to prove what you've been doing and why it was recalibrated. With so many repair shops doing diagnostic and repair and almost none of them reporting back to GM on why a recal was done it would be almost impossible for them to know exactly who and why this was done.

    When you uninstall the program it registers a change and assigns a new number, so they'll always know you changed something but not what you changed or why you changed it.

  6. #16

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by tbplus10 View Post
    Yes thats one of the methods being used for tracking but it goes back to the fact that they have to prove what you've been doing and why it was recalibrated. With so many repair shops doing diagnostic and repair and almost none of them reporting back to GM on why a recal was done it would be almost impossible for them to know exactly who and why this was done.

    When you uninstall the program it registers a change and assigns a new number, so they'll always know you changed something but not what you changed or why you changed it.

    Many aftermarket repair shops have the reprogramming pass through hardware and actually purchase the flash program from GM. So to be safe one could always remove his programmer and then have his PCM re-flashed with the latest programming before taking it in for a warranty repair. Especially if the programmer was set to high performance and something is broken because of it.
    Jim

    2004 SILVERADO 2500HD LS
    Pro Comp Leveling Kit
    285-75-16 Cooper ST All Terrains
    Pro Comp Programmer
    Bilstein Shocks
    Linux Bed Liner
    Tinted Windows



    Other rides:

    1967 Landcruiser <350 Chevy>
    1970 Camaro
    1990 Geo Metro Convertible
    2007 FJ Cruiser

  7. #17

    Default

    Yep, that would be the smart move, then let'em prove you werent running anything but stock settings.

  8. #18
    Sr. Apprentice
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    louisiana
    Posts
    31

    Default

    sorry to say it doesn't change back as for sps you have to get a subscription from gm in order to program j2534 is what the aftermarket uses i think even that is connected to the ivory tower. them tuner people better get it together imho.

  9. #19

    Default

    let me try to answer this as a former dealer they can refuse to fix under warrenty if it changes the specs of what the car/truck was designed for if you change say a gm hub with a napa hub they will not cover it since it should be covered by napa but will cover any other item that has not been changed or modified..ask your self if you were in buisness and someone changed something that changed what you built and it wasnt designed to be that way would you cover that change

    Dan

    2006 GMC 1500 Long Bed Vortec 4.3
    1982 S-10 Prodject Street/Track with a 327/300hp Motor built up to 415 hp

  10. #20

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Jimmiee View Post
    Many aftermarket repair shops have the reprogramming pass through hardware and actually purchase the flash program from GM. So to be safe one could always remove his programmer and then have his PCM re-flashed with the latest programming before taking it in for a warranty repair. Especially if the programmer was set to high performance and something is broken because of it.
    true but just like computers in your home a reflash partichans the computer and they can see any and all changes you have made or changed nice try

    Dan

    2006 GMC 1500 Long Bed Vortec 4.3
    1982 S-10 Prodject Street/Track with a 327/300hp Motor built up to 415 hp

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