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  1. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Heater View Post
    Based on your conspicuousness on this forum and the number of posts you make, you have exponentially more free time on your hands than I do. You will likely spend some of that time figuring out more items in your garage that can't take a 3-4 foot drop or withstand coffee spills. If you lived as long as I have, you have seen just about everything fall from ladders, at heights greater than 3-4 feet. Without making an exhaustive list, I can tell you all those things you list that I own have survived a fall to the floor, including a wall clock. (yes, including my chain saw).

    Would this resolve the question asked in this thread? No. So I suggest you start a new thread where you list your items and request replies to see if anyone out there has stuff that breaks like (apparently) yours break. I won't have the time to take a look.

    The question posited was whether electronic records have replaced printed material for automotive service manuals. If by this one assumes that more people use one or the other, I don't think they have. If we consider the proliferation of electronic record keeping in medicine and law and municipal operations, one can make a strong argument that eventually libraries may not have books any more, and perhaps there will be more people with electronic service manuals than printed media. But the time for that is beyond what anyone can presently predict.

    My point is simply this: compared to a laptop or a pc, which is needed to read the CD rom or download of an electronic manual, a book does not cost much, does not require 120 VAC or a battery, does not require a monitor or screen, does not require an operating system, does not get viruses and malware you have to remove, does not require internet service, does not require software upgrades or patches, does not require security software, does not get junk mail, does not require expensive repairs, and if you drop it from a table or a ladder or the back of your truck, it does not break. Yes, and you can also spill liquids on it and it only warps the pages a bit. In fact, if you threw a printed service manual out the window of your car on the freeway and stopped to go back and get it, you can still use it.

    When you find a laptop that can meet that criteria, get back to me. When I have some spare time, I will take a look at it. I use a laptop. I have a couple of CD rom manuals, but I rarely use them. And I use a keypad cover on my laptop so I can spill coffee on it, but I still don't use it in my garage. If you love your laptop in your garage, I suggest you write a letter to Microsoft, Apple, Intel, Asus, Seagate or Western Digital and tell them. I am sure they will appreciate the endorsement.

    And if you really have a chain saw that can't take a 3-4 foot drop, I suggest you spend some of that free time to earn some extra money and buy a good chain saw. I have a Stihl chainsaw and it can take that abuse.

    I just found one in ten words or less:

    http://www.dell.com/xfr

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by The Heater View Post
    You can't print a large format schematic from a laptop. And you can't drop a laptop on a concrete floor, pick it up and keep reading. Nor can you spill a cup of hot coffee on it and just wipe it off.
    You can't print a schematic from a book either, you connect your laptop to a printer and print it out. Infact, you can connect your laptop to a plotter and print 60 inch wide x what ever length schematics you want

    Actually I stand corrected.... you can print anything you want up to 128 inches by how ever long the roll of paper is with this one.:


    Mimaki 320DS
    This 128 inch roll-fed printer uses eco-friendly aqueous ink for a direct dye sublimation printing and comes with a customization kit that allows you to add a ditch for ink runoff to prevent unwanted penetration of more porous materials such as mesh or flag. The Mimaki320DS has a staggered head array, utilizing four printheads for high speed printing. The printer also comes with Mimaki’s automatic nozzle failure detection, uninterrupted ink supply system, Rasterlink Pro III RIP, and automatic registration for doublesided prints. Made for the flag, banner, trade show fabric graphics, P-O-P, and soft signage markets this is a great printer with a max 720×1440 dpi resolution that can print 645 sq ft per hour.


    Is 128 inches big enough for your schematics?

  2. #22

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    $3,960.00. I don't think that is a viable option for any homeowner except the richest out there. How much is a manual? ten-twenty bucks on eBay?

    http://configure.us.dell.com/dellsto...acd=s_pla_SO29
    1994 Chevy K2500 Silverado, 454 (modified), original owner.
    And other vehicles and toys.

    "...If you can meet with triumph and disaster
    And treat those two imposters just the same;
    ...you'll be a Man, my son!" Rudyard Kipling

  3. #23

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    I wouldn't say richest, but its not something an DIYer needs. Really if I needed I could do prints 36" wide on my dads full color plotter, but that would be a waste of time if I can find a pic that prints well on 8.5x11 or is in a manual. I think using both is the most beneficial. Use the manual for an overview and so basic pics then ask on line or look up and get more pics and expanded instructions.

    Some times manuals can get you through a project with out any problems, but sometimes you need more than just "remove the three bolts then pull the part off" Because a manual wont tell you that to get to those three bolts you need to have magical hands. I have had times when using a manual where it just didn't elaborate on very difficult processes, but friends on the site did.

    1996 Chevy Tahoe LT 5.7L V8 4X4 205,000+ miles. Built proudly at Janesville Assembly in Janesville, Wisconsin
    Basic mods: Lights all over, bunch of electrical work, and a couple cooling mods.

    Check out my other mods in My Garage: http://www.gmtruckclub.com/forum/sho...t-Tahoe-4-Door

  4. #24

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    Web forums for vehicles specific to what you have are a great source for pictorial instructions for installations that are not covered in a manual of any type, and this is the electronic source I use for aftermarket installations on some vehicles I own where I can find the thread for it and someone has been kind enough to put all the pictures. I needed to install a stereo in a car dash that at the time had no domestically available dash kit, and someone put a multi page instruction thread on an Infiniti forum for doing it, complete with desoldering and re-installation instructions for a button that had to be put on the replacement dash kit (they provided the source in Japan for the dash kit too). But I still use the OEM manuals for most procedures.

  5. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Heater View Post
    $3,960.00. I don't think that is a viable option for any homeowner except the richest out there. How much is a manual? ten-twenty bucks on eBay?

    http://configure.us.dell.com/dellsto...acd=s_pla_SO29

    Well, that is why a $599 ipad/android tablet with a 10 inch screen and wireless to a 13x19 inch printer which will only set you back maybe $199 (printer) will be fine for printing out anything you need to take to the vehicle you are working on. That is allot less than a $3700 laptop and $30,000 plotter.

    And I am not so much worried about oil getting on the ipad screen because you would just wipe it off. Now I would not stick an ipad in a 5 gallon pail of oil. If you do that you really should not be working on your truck in the first place.



    Oh and the android tablet or ipad can also be connected via blue tooth to the OBDII port in the truck so you can get real time diagnostics while you are under it.
    Last edited by PantheraUncia; 01-02-2013 at 03:14 PM. Reason: Added OBT II info

  6. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by nakranij View Post
    Well, that is why a $599 ipad/android tablet with a 10 inch screen and wireless to a 13x19 inch printer which will only set you back maybe $199 (printer) will be fine for printing out anything you need to take to the vehicle you are working on. That is allot less than a $3700 laptop and $30,000 plotter.

    And I am not so much worried about oil getting on the ipad screen because you would just wipe it off. Now I would not stick an ipad in a 5 gallon pail of oil. If you do that you really should not be working on your truck in the first place.



    Oh and the android tablet or ipad can also be connected via blue tooth to the OBDII port in the truck so you can get real time diagnostics while you are under it.
    Wow. OK, now that is a set up a lot of people could live with and buy. You got me on that one. I could see myself with that set up, for sure.

    I think it would make a great start to a new thread on what to buy to use in the shop if you are not a hard copy manual person such as myself.

    (I still believe at this juncture that as far as the original question of this thread, there are still more people using books than electronic media, in the CONSUMER realm. Repair shops, even small ones, have mostly gone to a monthly service of electronic research to get the data they need to work on vehicles. however.)

  7. #27
    Master Mechanic
    AMac's Avatar
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    While I do love GMTC and all of the people who have helped me in the past, I did put a Silverado repair manual on my Christmas list; yes Santa brought it




  8. #28

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    Personally I want the GM service manual for my truck, its two books and costs $300 but has everything!!!!!!

  9. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Heater View Post
    Based on your conspicuousness on this forum and the number of posts you make, you have exponentially more free time on your hands than I do.
    I happen to have a sleep 'disorder' (which I consider an asset) that allows me an average of 18 waking hours per week more than someone who needs 8 hours of sleep per 24 hour day -- without building more sleep debt than said someone. Plainly put, my days are merely longer than yours with no penalty -- and I use this to my maximum advantage for both work and play. You only see the play side of it; my boss gets to reap the benefits of the work side of it.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Heater View Post
    I suggest you start a new thread where you list your items and request replies to see if anyone out there has stuff that breaks like (apparently) yours break. I won't have the time to take a look.
    I only listed items to point out how ridiculous your criteria was when taken literally. You chose to talk about what belongs in 'a' shop (not 'your' shop, but 'a' shop -- which is an important word choice you elected to make). I was that literal with what you wrote bcause literally is the only way to take something in a textual medium such as this when you don't want to mistakenly read anything into it. Doing so was like winding up a wind-up toy in the hopes of watching it walk off a table so that observers could get a good laugh. I wound, you walked, and the result has been a hoot. Thank you for that and for being predictable.


    Quote Originally Posted by The Heater View Post
    The question posited was whether electronic records have replaced printed material for automotive service manuals. If by this one assumes that more people use one or the other, I don't think they have. If we consider the proliferation of electronic record keeping in medicine and law and municipal operations, one can make a strong argument that eventually libraries may not have books any more, and perhaps there will be more people with electronic service manuals than printed media. But the time for that is beyond what anyone can presently predict.

    My point is simply this: compared to a laptop or a pc, which is needed to read the CD rom or download of an electronic manual, a book does not cost much, does not require 120 VAC or a battery, does not require a monitor or screen, does not require an operating system, does not get viruses and malware you have to remove, does not require internet service, does not require software upgrades or patches, does not require security software, does not get junk mail, does not require expensive repairs, and if you drop it from a table or a ladder or the back of your truck, it does not break. Yes, and you can also spill liquids on it and it only warps the pages a bit. In fact, if you threw a printed service manual out the window of your car on the freeway and stopped to go back and get it, you can still use it.

    When you find a laptop that can meet that criteria, get back to me.
    I have a Chiltons, and it's flat-out incomplete despite being the most recent for my model year. The schematics in it are incomplete. The pictures in it are incomplete. When you find printed material that begins complete and STAYS complete (i.e. remains updated) without having to reprint it, can be delivered in a matter of moments from its source location (i.e. where it was printed) to your shop without having to ship it, can offer constructive feedback on your efforts like forum responses can, and can even get more detailed than it was originally if you're having trouble understanding it like photo updates in how-to guides can ... then let me know, as I'll consider printed material something that trumps online material. Until then, online material wins with me because of its tendency to be more current than print and its ability to be interactive.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Heater View Post
    And if you really have a chain saw that can't take a 3-4 foot drop, I suggest you spend some of that free time to earn some extra money and buy a good chain saw. I have a Stihl chainsaw and it can take that abuse.
    I only own Stihls, myself (two of them) ... and if one falls 4 feet face down onto the bar ... the bar may be bent. Period. (You were merely lucky that yours wasn't.)

  10. #30

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    Quote Originally Posted by AMac View Post
    While I do love GMTC and all of the people who have helped me in the past, I did put a Silverado repair manual on my Christmas list; yes Santa brought it

    Congrats Where have you been hiding

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