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Audio Fitting 8" mids in doors of NNBS truck

Discussion in 'Audio, Video & Gadget Tech' started by Texas Edition, Aug 22, 2012.

  1. Texas Edition

    Texas Edition New Member

    Audiopipe is a brand that people like to bash on because of their pricing. They are CEA Certified and Compliant so they do atleast rated power if not more in most cases. They are also one of the most efficient amplifiers I have ever seen. They are rated to have an efficiency rating of >85%, so they are atleast 85% efficient. I have read reviews and test on their AP line and some have reported an efficiency of 91-93% efficiency. Now that is just crazy. One of the test was on the AP30001D and they clamped it at over 3122wrms @ 1 ohm @ 14.1 volts. Oh yeah, their AP line of amps are 16 volt compatible, so throw a Kinetic HC16V 16 volt battery (Which I have a brand new one for sale by the way, which also has a 12 volt post for the rest of your vehicle) on the 30001D and you are playing close to the 4000wrms zone. I have never seen an am that is in the 90's.... I have owned and installed over 30 of their amplifiers and only had to return one of their amplifiers. Audiopipe's Customer Service is top notch. They replaced it and shipped it back FedEx for free. People see the small price tag and instantly, without even seeing, hearing, or having dealt with their amplifiers and bag on them. I have 3 of their amps in my truck and a Phoenix Gold Tantrum 500.2. I have also ran their AP30001D that is rated for 3000wrms x 1 @ 2 ohm or 1500wrms x 2 @ 1 ohm. They are in fact two AP15001D's, strapped internally and put in a larger case. I installed an Audiopipe AP15001D in a friends Escape in a 4.8 cu ft box with two Infinity Kappa Perfect 10's tuned to 34hz, wired to 1 ohm so they were receiving roughly 1200-1500wrms. Not quite sure as I didn't get to adjust the gains. I just set them at a safe setting and he had to hit the road. He listened to them and I told him to adjust the gains and he turned the gain up before they bottomed out and I must say, wow, I was impressed by those subs. If you haven't figured it out already, I don't go with mainstream brands. I go with the smaller audiophile type brands for my car audio equipment where they spend their money on Research & Development and parts rather than say, Kicker, who spends a majority of their money on marketing, which takes up alot of money. Audiophile companies don't need to advertise as 1) they cant mass produce their products because they are a smaller shop and hand build everything from scratch and 2) their market is geared towards people who are audiophiles who attend and compete in SPL and SQ Car Audio Competitions. One mainstream brand subwoofer I LOVE is the newer Alpine Type R 12. I ran two of those when they first came out and were the forum boner on caraudio.com and other car audio message boards.

    So if you are running JL Audio subs and are looking to change it up anytime soon, check out those audiophile brands I mentioned above. I bet you that you will be extremely surprised in the difference, plus the money you will save. With the money you save, you upgrade a component to your car audio such as an amplifier, XS D3400 battery (which is what I have installed as its a Group 34 battery that the NNBS trucks have), Mechman 270a H.O. Alternator (which I have installed also) new components, go to a DVD/Navigation unit (Mine is their flagship model; JVC KW-NT800HDT (MSRP of $1499, but I paid $900 from a car audio shop in Dallas) or something else, while getting a much harder hitting subwoofer(s) and improved SQ with great Customer Service and warranty. Mainstream brands try to find ways to get out of warrantying their subwoofers by saying it was user error by feeding the amp too much power, improper installation not done by a certified tech or an authorized brand dealer, amp clipping, etc... You don't get that kind of crap with those brands I mentioned above.

    So give them a shot. Try a pair of Sundown Audio SA-12's ported with 1500-2000wrms.

    Wow. Ok, I just typed an awful lot and it was all about subwoofers when my thread is suppose to be about speakers, not subwoofers. I apologize in advance. I just had surgery and I am on the strongest hydrocodone you can get and it makes me ramble and ramble and ramble. Again, I apologize and please don't be offended if I knocked your brand, that is if you are running JL Audio speakers, subwoofers, or amplifiers. Save the money while upgrading at the same time my friend!
  2. Texas Edition

    Texas Edition New Member

    You are right on you get what you pay for, which is what I assume you were meaning about quality speakers are quality speakers.

    When you are talking about car you have heard with JBL equipment, I am assuming, again, that they are running JBL Subs, amps and speakers, right? Well JBL makes subwoofers that get extremely loud as you said, you find JBL Subs at car audio SPL Competitions. JBL doesnt make great speakers though.

    This is what I have learned over the past 10+ years of installing car audio and reading and reading and reading on message car audio message boards doing endless research. Most car audio brands make one or two great products and the rest arent so great. JBL for example as you mentioned. Loud durable subwoofers, pretty decent amplifiers, terrible speakers. Audiopipe: Makes great amplifiers, but poor speakers and subwoofers. JL Audio: Great subwoofers and amps, but bad speakers. Rockford Fosgate: Pretty good subwoofers and amps, great DSP's, terrible Head Units and bad speakers. Kenwood: Pretty good Headunits, middle of the line amps, bad subwoofers and speakers. JVC: Great Navigation/DVD units, bad speakers, amplifiers, and subwoofers. RE Audio: Awesome top notch subwoofers, bad outsourced amplifiers and bad speakers, except one of their speakers, which is an 8" midrange speaker that is good.

    Then there are companies that make all around good products. Focal. Top Notch Awesome speakers, Top 5 or Top 10 in SQ on amplifiers although pricey and dont get as powerful and their subwoofers, pricey aswell are top of the line pure Sound Quality subwoofers. Oh and they are by far the best looking subwoofers out there too. lol Sundown Audio: Top of the line Subwoofers and amplifiers. They dont make component speakers, but they make one line of speakers and thats their NeoPro Series MidBass drivers that come in 6.5's, 8's and 10's. These aren't midrange speakers, they are midbass. I'm looking into putting a set of these in my truck.

    As for your local car audio shop not carrying Focal anymore, thats unfortunate. Car audio custom shops aren't corporately owned, so they dont have great dealer programs to compete like for instanace, CarToys or online car stereo shops. They have to go with what they can sell. They probably weren't able to meet the quota that most brands require in order to remain an Authorized Dealer. Digital Designs is like that just off the top of my head. However, Hertz Audio is not a bad brand by any means. They are one of my favorite brands for Component Speakers. Since the shop just started carrying the brand, they probably haven't tuned their soundboard yet for the Hertz speakers. They are probably running off of the sae settings from the Focals that were just replaced or they just haven't gotton around to tuning them, or possibly since they are new, they havent fine tuned them yet. I have installed 6 sets of Hertz Audio speakers and they get loud and sound great doing it. I suggest listening to their HSK line of components, but not from a sound board. Listen to them in a car, properly amped and properly tuned. They really do sound great. Sound Boards are terrible for trying to compare, judge and listen to speakers for many reasons. The speakers may not be on the right amplifier, the headunit is not going to be adjusted specifically for that set of speakers, the amplifier is not going to be set specifically for those set of speakers, the crossovers may not have been adjusted correctly with higher end crossovers with attenuation switches and frequency cut off switches and lastly and most importantly, listening to them in a room versus listening to a set of speakers in a vehicle is like comparing apples to oranges. Car speakers, or speakers in general, are EXTREMELY environmental sensitive. For example, all vehicles act different with cabin gain so say your box is ported to a certain frequency, then you throw that same box and subs in an SUV or just different car, the frequency is going to change. Forgot to mention. People who are use to Focal and have listened to them over the years, get accustomed to the harsh metal tweeter. There are ALOT of people out there that don't care for Focal's tweeters, let alone metal tweeters to begin with. Hertz Audio uses silk dome tweeters, which are more laid back and smoother and not so much in your face like Focal is. I switched my Focal tweeter in the rear doors of my truck for a pair of silk dome Digital Designs T1 tweeters. I wanted a smoother sound back there. People sitting in the back can hear my four Focal tweeters from the front of my truck, no need to have 2 more for a total of 6 harsh metal dome Focal tweeters. My tweeters up front are attenuated by -2dB at the crossovers, but my 13 band EQ still has the high frequencies in the upper range so its balanced.

    Try to find someone with a set of Hertz HSK165's amped and properly tuned. Then you can get a real good idea of how they really sound. They are one of the fastest growing car speaker brands in regards to popularity. Google them. Read up on them on caraudio.com, caraudioclassifieds.com or reviews from consumers on online stores. HSK line on up are great. I believe their lines in order of bottom to top are DSK, ESK, HSK, MLK. Personally, I'd love to get my hands on a set of Hertz MLK 2 TW (150wrms x 2 power handling with 93dB sensitivity. Yeah.. They get loud and pricey. Right below that is a set I have been eyeballing. The HSK 165 component system. 125wrms x 2 power handling at 92dB sensitivity, but I'd really like to get the HSK 165XL which has a larger, deeper magnet that handles 150wrms x 2 @ 93.5dB sensitivity rating. Yeah, these get freakishly loud too and sound great doing it. I'm thinking about selling my Focal 165k2p crossovers and buying a set of Hertz HSK's, but then again, I want to keep my truck all Focal and not mix it up, but man, I really want to have a couple sets of Hertz Comps in my truck for a while
    http://www.hertzaudiovideo.com/default_en.htm

    Sorry for the long post.
  3. Texas Edition

    Texas Edition New Member

    Ok, so I didnt get a chance to read this post of yours before I replied to your first post. Sounds like you know your stuff and my post now looks like I treated you as if you didn't know as much about car audio as I previously thought. My apologies.

    But for this reply, I know what brands to stray away from and what brands are good, obviously from my long post I made. I use to live in Dallas, so I could go listen to different speakers, but now I moved up to BFE Oklahoma out in the middle of nowhere so I can't go listen to quality audiophile speakers from overseas.

    I think I am just going to replace the speaker. I'm not quite sure what Focal model I had in there as I googled the Reference Number on the magnet and it came up with a few hits, all in a different language, so I'm not for sure on what line of mids I have. It was a few years ago when I bought them from a member from a car audio message board or from Ebay, but I am 75% sure they are K2p's. Obviously discontinued. Im not sure if thats just what the Component line is called; Focal K2P or if they are 6K2p, which I was recently offered to purchase from someone on caraudioclassifieds.com. I am gonna have to do some research on the discontinued 6K2p line to make sure I'm not downgrading on speakers or getting a lower end model of the K2p lineup. Focal has so many different models, I can't keep up. I mean, there are like 19 different variations of the K2p lineup.

    The reference number on my blown speaker is 6K4441R. Doesnt give me a model number like the newer models have. The serial number is so worn, I cant even read it completely, even with both speakers out to match up and get a full S/N.

    But I really want a pair of 165K2p mids as that is what my crossovers are. I have the 165K2p crossovers, which aren't cheap by any means at $250+ a pop. It would be perfect to actually match up my crossovers with the correct 6 1/2 midrange driver, although the speakers I had in the truck before they blew, worked perfectly fine off of that crossover. I just know it will sound SOOO much better if I matched up the two together as they were built specifically for each other, plus the 165k2p mid is an awesome speaker. Surely better than the one I have been running. Probably notice a huge difference. Plus I really need to figure out what model of speakers I have so I can sell the working one that I didnt have hooked back up yet since I am redoing my entire wiring, added a 4th amp for the newly added Focal Performance PS165 Comps in the Q-Logic Kicks. I have to watch my frequency with the PS165's since they arent sealed off. They are pratically free air since the Kicks arent sealed. Im tossing around ideas to see if I can fiberglass the Q-Logic Kicks to seal them up. Im going to call them up next week and ask them if that's a good idea or not, let alone if they will still even fit down on the floorboard. Im already frustrated that I can't get my driver's floormat back on the floor unless I trim it. Checking prices on a replacement mat for when I sell the truck to see if it would be worth it or not. I'd rather not go with an aftermarket floormat. They are so cheesy
  4. Shadew

    Shadew New Member

    I got lost in the details. So did you put 8's in the door? If you have and it is a skip, please let me know. If you haven't I am considering guinea-pigging it.
  5. Enkeiavalanche

    Enkeiavalanche Rockstar 4 Years ROTM Winner 5000 Posts

    You can fit them with some work.. Not easy But you can try? Do you know how to Fiberglass? Build your door out? Strong enough to hold everything when you shut the door? When I had my amps in the rear doors 1 fell out after a Slam. Doh.... So we put 1/8 steel in to help support everything and no problems after
  6. Shadew

    Shadew New Member

    I have no idea if I am any good at fiberglass, but I am a wizard with a welder and grinder. I went ahead and ordered some 8's and decided that you for sure can't if you don't try. I will take pictures as it goes along, to help answer the chicken/egg question. Thanks for the heads up.
  7. Enkeiavalanche

    Enkeiavalanche Rockstar 4 Years ROTM Winner 5000 Posts

    If you can go to a junk Yard close by and get a door from your year truck. If you are good with wood you can build it out and angle them to fit your needs. then cover them with some cloth that matches the doors..
  8. Shadew

    Shadew New Member

    So here is the answer, 3 way Blaupunkt GTX 803 SC will fit with just cutting out the hole. It would be much more extensive to mount some big magnet subs in there. My opinion of the speakers, is they are alot better than the stock speakers, but probably should have just put in some Kicker 6 1/2". But in their defense they were cheap, $25 from Crutchfield's open box sale. They sound good, but I fear that a sub is also in my future. Here are the pics of what is involved. I got what I wanted, better sound quality, factory locations, and better bass. If you have moderate skill with a grinder with a cutoff wheel, drill, wire twisting ability, and an hour of free time, then get elbow deep in it. 100_2515.jpg 100_2508.jpg 100_2509.jpg 100_2510.jpg 100_2511.jpg 100_2512.jpg 100_2513.jpg 100_2514.jpg
  9. Enkeiavalanche

    Enkeiavalanche Rockstar 4 Years ROTM Winner 5000 Posts

    Nice job But I think he is looking for more Midbass...
  10. zigger215

    zigger215 Member 2 Years 500 Posts

    Well done shadew, just an idea that can further help out, once you're done grinding, get some rubber trim that will fit nicely over that thin metal skin and wrap your hole, this give the speakers some nice rubber to mount up to, it will reduce future rattles and help seal up the speaker.

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