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Hey GM Wake UP!!!!!!

Discussion in 'The Coffee Shop ~ Chit Chat' started by Enkeiavalanche, Feb 19, 2013.

  1. Enkeiavalanche

    Enkeiavalanche Moderator

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    Or will GM be LAST to market this???

    [h=1]Chrysler will offer diesel version of light-duty Ram pickup[/h]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    By: Restyling News
    Monday, February 18, 2013



    Chrysler Group’s Ram brand announced Feb. 14 that it will be first to offer a small-displacement diesel for its half-ton line of trucks.
    Featuring a new 3.0-liter EcoDiesel engine and an eight-speed TorqueFlite automatic transmission, the automaker said the 2014 Ram 1500 will deliver best-in-class fuel efficiency and torque. If Chrysler delivers and the price is right, the diesel truck could propel pickup sales, which will stimulate demand for aftermarket accessories.
    The 3.0-liter, V-6 turbo-diesel from Italian engine maker VM Motori produces 60% less emissions than those produced by diesel powertrains 25 years ago, Ram’s maker notes.
    The same eight-speed transmission and turbo-diesel engine that will power the 2014 half-ton pickup is identical to one offered in the 2014 Jeep Grand Cherokee that achieves highway fuel economy above 30 mpg, as reported by Larry Vellequette of Automotive News.
    Although diesel engines are only available in half-ton pickup variants, they typically achieve higher fuel economy with better torque than gas-powered engines. The 2014 Ram 1500 will be Chrysler’s first light-duty pickup offering since the early 1980s.
    Pricing has not yet been announced, but the diesel pickup is scheduled to enter production in July.



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  2. Conlan Rose

    Conlan Rose Super Moderator

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    GM has the engine and tranny ready. They just need to put it in the trucks. Look up the 4.5L Duramax. GM developed it from 09-10, but never put it in a truck because of raising diesel costs and worry it wouldn't catch on especially right after the bailout. It is said to have 310 hp and 520 ft lb of torque which helps it achieve up to 25% better mpg then a gas truck under light load and 75%-50% better mpg when towing or hauling compared to a gaser.
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  3. McClintoc

    McClintoc Super Moderator

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    A Chevy Cruz with a turbo diesel is being released later this year. Maybe if that does well, they'll put a small diesel in the Silverado.
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  4. TRPLXL2

    TRPLXL2 New Member

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    I personally don't understand the fascination with diesel, I understand for a full size truck that gets worked hard. But for a daily driver it seems kind of silly, just the repair cost alone of a diesel make me steer clear.
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  5. PantheraUncia

    PantheraUncia New Member

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    This is completely false. If you "pay" a repitable shop to replace injectors on a 5.3L gas vortec, they will charge you about $1500 for parts and labor. Glow plugs are cheap and hardly ever need replacing.

    Your tires, frame, suspension are the same across all 1500's, unless you go with HD shocks (which shocks are easy to install) they are cheaper at the parts store.

    The only thing (6.6L dmax) is that the 6.6L Dmax uses 12 quarts of oil per oil change. A 4.5L would take allot less oil than a 6.6L engine.

    By the time you figure the 5.3L averages 15mpgs and the 4.5L Dmax gives you 24-30mpgs. you have more than made your money back (unless you are leasing the truck and you loose your shirt).

    I keep my trucks on average 13 years and they are paid off within the first 48 months. To compare 13 years with a 5.3L gas to a 4.5L dmax, I am putting money in my pocket every year I own that dmax once it is paid off.

    The diesel also run cooler meaning less heat damage where parts will need to be replaced in the engine more often on a 5.3L gas.
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  6. Conlan Rose

    Conlan Rose Super Moderator

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    Also adding to what [MENTION=52280]nakranij[/MENTION] said the 4.5l doesn't have a true intake and the injectors are externally mounted to make replacement easy. The turbo is mounted in the valley of the engine to help make the engine smaller but more powerful. This engine would likely out last the body it would be installed in. GM worked very hard on this engine but sadly did nothing with it.
    gm-has-changed-its-v-8-bellhousing-pattern.jpg
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  7. PantheraUncia

    PantheraUncia New Member

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    And when it comes to "fuel" prices.....

    Right now these are the lowest fuel prices around where I live:

    87oct gas $3.69/Gal
    89oct gas $3.77/Gal
    93oct gas $3.99/Gal

    Diesel $4.05/Gal

    Now I have my 5.3L re-tuned for 93oct. that is $3.99/Gal. "If" I had a 4.5L Diesel I would be paying $4.05/Gal


    My Truck is an ext. cab/w 6.5ft bed. My tank is 27.5gal (per the sticker from GM at the dealer)


    • If my tank was "dry" it would cost me $109.725 to put 93 oct. in it
    • If my tank was "dry" it would cost me $1113.75 to put diesel in it


    • 27.5/Gal of 93oct will get me 412.5 miles per fill up @15mpg
    • 27.5/Gal of Diesel will get me 660 miles per fill up @ 24mpg
    • 27.5/Gal of Diesel will get me 825 miles per fill up @ 30mpg

    I drive about 300 miles a week; you don't have to know more than basic math to see a pattern adding up really fast over 12 months or 13 years.....

    Now ask yourself why I would buy another gas powered truck?

    What happens if 93oct goes to $5 or $8 per gallon and diesel is $5.05 or $8.05 per gallon? I would really hate to be the person who owns that gas truck, I am still able to put some money away for a vacation?


    Unless you are just made of money....

    :lol:

    I think I have more than covered the extra cost of the oil changes and all of the maintenance on the 4.5L Diesel.

    Oh, and for the people running 87oct in their 5.3L gas engine.... figure 10-15% less MPG's than 93oct.

    I am not endorsing this site, but if you really think diesel is that much more than what you are paying for gas, take a reality check:

    http://gasbuddy.com/

    (Now each local/state) will be different.... some places may have $1 difference between 87oct and diesel, but not many.

    Another thing to consider is 99% of the gas stations out there are selling you 90% gas and 10% ethanol. That 10% ethanol is messing with your fuel economy even if you have a flex fuel truck.

    Check out:

    http://pure-gas.org/

    ethanol-free gas is going to cost the same or more than Diesel, then the cost savings really start adding up and trying to get ethanol-free gas is going to be allot harder than trying to find diesel.


    Last edited: Feb 20, 2013
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  8. TRPLXL2

    TRPLXL2 New Member

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    :great:
    LS ENGINES RULE, TRUE STORY
    #8
  9. Enkeiavalanche

    Enkeiavalanche Moderator

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    Very nice write up... Don't forget about the extra Tq too and power..
    #9
  10. PantheraUncia

    PantheraUncia New Member

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    Yes, the extra Tq and Power is part of the reason I am looking to go to a Dmax.... and how easy you can tune them for some real power..... it is cheaper to get 600hp+ on a Dmax than an LS engine, not that many people want to have a 0-60 faster than a Z06 :) but it is nice and the photo of the guy in the vet looking at you as you pass him is even better :) in your 8000lb truck made of raw steel

    I wonder what would happen (Other than you would not want to haul a load in the bed or use the truck as a truck) if you had a Titanium alloy frame to reduce the weight of the truck and then went with all carbon fiber panels...

    If you could drop the weight of the 6.6L Dmax by 2000-3000lbs and keep the same power train (Engine, Tranny, rear diff), you really would be smoking allot of the rycers even harder and get even better fuel econ.
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  11. SurrealOne

    SurrealOne Former Member

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    [MENTION=52280]nakranij[/MENTION], let me make sure I have this straight:
    • You claim to care about fuel consumption and prices
    • But you want to up the horsepower on the vehicle to 600+
    • And you want to scream past guys with vettes in your truck
    • Both of which burn a metric crapton of fuel
    • Meaning you don't really care about how much fuel you burn

    Based on this logic, your argument about fuel economy is purely a straw man exercise you use to self-justify wanting a Dmax. You'd be best served to simply say you want one rather than contradict yourself in this manner.

    :gasp:
    #11
  12. PantheraUncia

    PantheraUncia New Member

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    I think that is only partially correct. 99% of the time I drive with cruise on, meaning I am getting the best ratio possible mpg's/ fuel. But that does not mean you have to be a siff and not have the extra ummfff when you need or want it (and yes, your MPG's will go down if you floor the petal, that is not specifically a Dmax thing)

    However the difference is that a Diesel will handle the abuse over the long term of the petal to the metal better than our 5.3L will in cost of replacing parts and for the 99% of times you are not hitting the floor with the petal, you still are making up much more than you loose.

    Lets take vets for an example, we have some of the largest stealer ships on the east coast right here in our area, we also sell more Z06's than most dealerships, how many people that have Z06's in this area buy them to bury the petal every time they sit in the driver seat?

    Sometimes you can have your cake and eat it to. With trucks, that is the diesel, not the gassers.
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  13. SurrealOne

    SurrealOne Former Member

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    In every Dmax discussion you've had here, with me, and with Alox you've justified it with fuel econ ... but also brought up more HP and screaming off-the-line performance. Those two things do not ever mix ... because when you take action to get one (i.e. high MPG) you can't have the other in that very moment (i.e. drive like a nutter). Plainly put, you can't have your cake and eat it, too. (Doing that would entail high MPG -while- driving like a nutter.)

    Hearing you talk out both sides of your mouth (not intended to be an insult, by the way) ... wanting maximum fuel econ AND 600+ HP is just strange and unrealistic to me. It's like wanting a Volt to be electric, have unlimited range, and perform like a Vette. (That's an extreme case, but you get the idea.) If you tweak up your HP with mods you ARE going to negatively impact your fuel econ and can't have the max fuel econ ... even when driving nicely.

    How so? Well, you could have tweaked/tuned down for fuel econ but tweaked/tuned up for HP, so there's lost fuel econ, right there. Nevermind that it'll likely drink more fuel to get that added HP ... whether it's a gasser, a gasser with an aftermarket turbo, or a diesel with an OEM turbo.

    Added power doesn't come from nowhere. You can eek out a little more efficiency with tuning to obtain some power by minimizing waste. But a big bump, like that, is going to cost you some fuel econ, as the system just isn't so grossly inefficient that it'll allow you to squeeze out hundreds of HP through efficiency tweaks, alone.

    To get us back on topic:
    • What's the base MPG, HP, and Torque of the 4.5L diesel being contemplated?
    • I'm asking to see if your 22-25MPG and 600+ HP targets are even applicable on that engine...
    Last edited: Feb 21, 2013
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  14. PantheraUncia

    PantheraUncia New Member

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    S,

    No insult taken, but you and me both know that gas powered engines are obsolete 18th century technology that has been refined over the years and untill auto manufacturer's want to change, they won't.

    The closest "specs" I have found are here:

    http://www.dieselpowermag.com/features/0709dp_gm_4_5l_v8_duramax_diesel_engine/

    (Subject to change).

    The base MPG on that engine is 24mpg's and its peak is suppose to be 30mpg's (Hence my use of those figures in relation to the truck I am currently driving which uses gas.)

    Looking at those specs and comparing them to the specs of my 5.3L, with gas and diesel, you are right, there is a "balance" and there is a point of maximum return when it comes to boosting horse power and getting MPG's and going past that, one or the other is going to decline.

    So with the options before us, that 4.5L dmax compared to the 5.3L gas, is in effect, having your cake and eating to.

    And we both know that the margin for tweaking both horse power and MPG's is much larger on Diesels than it is on gas engines and the gains are better too all the way around (that peak before decline); you will get a much nicer peak on the 4.5L than any 5.3L gas will ever get. (with less abuse to the engine parts maintaining the integrity of the engine.

    Also, Dmaxes are not the same as diesels in 18 wheelers. I remember back in the day if you were at a stop light next to a diesel truck, it was all torque, even accelerating at a normal rate when the light turns green, the diesel will be "chugging" along slowly.

    Modern diesels in 3/4 and 1 ton trucks don't have that problem, infact, they are able to have the torque (more torque than they have ever had" and they also accelerate like you are driving an imported german sports car at the same time.
    #14
  15. SurrealOne

    SurrealOne Former Member

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    I'm not arguing that you can't tweak/tune diesels more. I'm not arguing that they are more fuel efficient. I am simply telling you that you CANNOT have 600+ HP without sacrificing max fuel econ using any of today's GM engines (whether diesel or not) ... and you can't on the 4.5L diesel, either.

    Having your cake and eating it, too, would be having max fuel econ AND the 600+ HP you want on GM engine -- at the same time (i.e. as you put the pedal down to use that 600HP). It's not possible. You could shift to a fuel econ tune for fuel econ ... and then to a power tune for HP ... on demand as you needed/wanted them. But that's switching between cakes and eating a bit of each ... not having your cake and eating it, too.

    So, I still want to know base HP on the 4.5L ... and whether it can be reasonably taken to 600+ HP with just tweaks/tunes. That, too, seems an unlikely goal...
    #15
  16. donyms

    donyms New Member

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    When Diesels are quite like gas engines and don't stink I may consider such a change but for now I will stick with my 5.3 it has more power than I have ever needed and I get 17 MPG and 19 on the highway. Maybe not the best but great for me because my 5.3 is not loud and doesn't stink. Also every time I have ever had to buy diesel for a tractor, truck or anything I would have to go and wash my hands before driving again because the pump nozzles are always oily. I say if you like or need a diesel get one, hell buy you a Dodge if you want but for now I will stick to good ole gas. :great:
    #16
  17. ahmitchell1

    ahmitchell1 New Member

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    When you cut out dpf and your egr and run a straight pipe with an intake and the banks six gun. also remove urea you can get high 30s on the lml Dmax. At the same time you can get can get tons or torque. All the EPA stuff hampers MPG
    #17
  18. E_HILLMAN

    E_HILLMAN New Member

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    Yep,

    My 02 Ram Diesel - 25mpg highway
    my 06 Ram Diesel - 18mpg highway
    my 10 ram Diesel - 16mpg highway

    From 02-06 the only thing that changed was the federal emissions equipment. Same engine size same truck size/weight/gears. :( in 10 the engine was bigger, used more fuel was rated for more HP but had MUCH LESS umph towing.

    my 12 Silverado Diesel - about 20mpg highway (interstate)
    but struggles in economy in town and for some reason the colder the weather the less mpg I get. Better than my last two Dodges but sad 02 technology is better than any of them with 2010 + because of all the crap now choking the engines. :( Sure you have less emissions but use more chemicals etc. doing that and use MUCH more fuel than you would be. Which is better for the environment? The 02's emissions were fine, it didn't smoke and I'm sure was still less than a gas engine.

    - - - Updated - - -

    ..as for considering Dodge.

    Look at my last 4 trucks and see what they are. Then wonder, why didn't he get a Dodge again in 2012? Why is he on the Chevy site? hmmm ;)
    Last edited: Feb 22, 2013
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  19. SurrealOne

    SurrealOne Former Member

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    Donyms, this made me laugh. But, umm, you forgot to mention that they sound like outboard motors and need to address that, too!
    #19
  20. PantheraUncia

    PantheraUncia New Member

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    Ok so lets compare apples to apples..... A 5.3L Class IV upgraded gasser to a 4.5L class IV upgraded Dmax both at 600HP rear wheel HP.

    Of the 2, which one will have higher mpg's and an engine that will take the upgrades for the long term :)

    if you are taping the the pedal in either truck, they will sip gas/diesel. If you jam the pedal to the concrete, the mpg's will go down, the percentage will be allot less in the dmax. I will have to find a site that does a side by side comparison of equally upgraded silverado's.

    Either truck at 600hp will not give you 15mpg or 24mpg. The 5.3L might hit 8mpg's @ 600hp...... the diesel might get you 12-15mpg's (24pmg's being the normal bottom end.
    #20

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