Warning on E15 fuel. Corrosive and dangerous for older cars and trucks. (Video)

Discussion in 'Performance & Fuel' started by Enkeiavalanche, Jan 2, 2013.

  1. joshuaT

    joshuaT Rockstar

    So I decided to do the whole E85 in my 97 4.3 and guess what, after a few tanks of fuel it was running good. I started off by mixing 2-3 gallons in with the regular fuel. Then I went to 50/50. After a few more tanks I went to straight 100 E85. You say it can't be done, I called and talked to a few places that make kits for cars and sure enough they said some 4.3's don't need any conversions. Then after a few days something happened, my fuel pump died. Go figure, all the crap from all over the world finally came up and killed it. When I changed the pump, my tank was super shiny inside but my pump was stained dark pee yellow. I later won a free kit on FB from the company so I can do the hardwire to my engine if I feel like doing it.

    On a side note, why did the military and gov't buy tons of flex fuel vehicles when they don't either sell it or use it on base. I know in the late 90's we had propane trucks and again they had to go off base just to fill up. Talk about a waste of time.
  2. dobey

    dobey Epic Member 5+ Years 500 Posts

    This is true, but it is incorrect to say that the Ethanol is the one doing the oxydizing; when it is in fact, water, that is doing it. Or in many cases, it's road salt or sea salt (in the air).

    And it's not the only thing in this report that the so-called "auto expert" spouts off that's not accurate.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Not sure what you mean by that exactly. All the bases near me (and there are a lot of them) have E85. In fact, the bases are the only place around here that one can get E85, unless maybe the county engineering facilities have it now too. Perhaps whatever bases you're referring to are just slow to get it due to location or something? Or maybe they opted not to.
  3. joshuaT

    joshuaT Rockstar

    I'm in Vegas and all the recent trips I've taken to other bases and I've not yet to see one e85 pump. I think it's sort of a conspiracy because the gov't owns GM so they buy all their vehicles with e85 so it puts money back into them so they can turn a profit. Using the tax payers money to buy that technology that has the potential to harm others engines unless you modify yours. Also they don't sell diesel on base here. Maybe they don't care about catering to the retirees whom drive those large rv's and trucks.
  4. Enkeiavalanche

    Enkeiavalanche Loving the Outdoors Staff Member 5+ Years ROTM Winner 5000 Posts

    Just got the newest SEMA news and saw this..

    By SEMA Washington, D.C., Staff
    Last August, a three-judge panel of the U.S. Court of Appeals for the District of Columbia Circuit dismissed a lawsuit that challenged the Environmental Protection Agency’s (EPA) authority to permit the sale of 15% ethanol (E15) content in gasoline for ’01 and newer model-year cars and light trucks. The full eight-judge panel has now rejected a petition to reconsider that decision. The court found that the groups bringing the lawsuit, which included trade associations representing manufacturers of cars, boats and power equipment, along with the petroleum and food industries, lacked standing to bring the lawsuit.

    SEMA opposes E15 based on scientific evidence that it causes corrosion with incompatible parts. Ethanol increases water formation, which can then create formic acid and corrode metals, plastics and rubber. In light of the Court’s decision, SEMA is turning to the U.S. Congress to enact legislation to ban the sale of E15.

    “The Court’s decision is disappointing for the millions of motorists who own older cars or those with high-performance specialty parts,” said Steve McDonald, SEMA vice president of government affairs. “These vehicles and parts are threatened with destruction by E15’s chemical properties. The EPA acknowledged the threat but, beyond minimal labeling requirements, took no additional steps to ensure that incompatible vehicles and engines were not misfueled with E15.”

    SEMA is seeking passage of federal legislation that would prevent the EPA from introducing E15 into the marketplace until the National Academies has conducted a study on how gasoline blended with 15% to 20% ethanol may impact gas-powered vehicles. The analysis would consider a variety of issues, including tailpipe emissions, materials compatibility and fuel efficiency.

    SEMA represents thousands of companies that market products for these vehicles and, through its SEMA Action Network, millions of enthusiasts who buy and operate these automobiles.
  5. marine59

    marine59 Member

    WOW !!! thank you for the heads up i had the understanding that fuel from CORN was good I now have my doughts, my 5 cyl colorado seems to run fine and i get great M.P.G.,s on the 10% i use my truck has been running a little rough latley i was told the colorado 5cyl had a valve seat problem and G. M. has warrantied the engine for 100,000 mile i am trying to confirm that, thru G.M. (government motors) so far no luck have a super day marine59 SEMPER-FI
  6. Cowpie

    Cowpie Rockstar 3 Years 500 Posts

  7. dsfloyd

    dsfloyd Epic Member 5+ Years ROTM Winner 1000 Posts

    My 2013 specifically states to not use anything over E10 on both the cap and manual. Warranty says not using approved fluids will void warranty. So it's not just pre 2012
    Last edited: Jun 15, 2013
  8. Cowpie

    Cowpie Rockstar 3 Years 500 Posts

    Well, the consumer section of the Federal Trade Commission will have the final say. Heck, the Dexos site goes so far as to say using anything other than a Dexos approved oil "may" void the warranty. There are lots of oils that meet and even beat the Dexos standard that are not on the list of "approved". Regarding E15, the OEM can take it upon themselves to void the warranty NO MATTER WHAT YOU PUT IN THE TANK! If they can show the fuel caused the problem, they can void a warranty. Even if the fuel was ethanol free. Fuel is on area they have no control over. They can lay out a specification, but if it is not followed to the letter, they cannot just void the warranty like a child having a tantrum. The M/M Warranty Act does not allow them to just void the warranty because they feel like it. They burden of proof is on the manufacturer to show that the fuel, oil, or whatever actually caused a problem.

    But, living in the almost de facto ethanol kingdom.... Iowa, I have seen various levels of ethanol run in just about every year of auto made. My wife had a 2003 Chevy Cavalier that just on a whim, I topped it off with E85 to essentially make it an E30 mix in the tank with what was already there and it ran just fine. Did that several times. Now, above this non standard mix of E30, it would pop a check engine light, but even then, intermittently.

    I get the idea that the anti-ethanol crowd is just stirring the pot and getting folks all worried over nothing. Truth be told, these same folks have had levels of ethanol ABOVE E10 occasionally anyway. The mixes are not precisely uniform. I would be willing to bet that anyone who lives in an area where ethanol is used quite extensively at the pump has essentially had "E15" in their auto more frequently than they would care to realize. Especially in areas where multi levels of fuel are dispensed thru the same hose. If the person before you got E85, and you filled with E10, the left over E85 in the filter and hose, would essentially blend you an E15 in your tank.

    I am just glad that my paranoia gland is not as large as some folks. Must be a miserable existence. I guess having been on two fronts regarding fuels... biodiesel and ethanol, my fear factor has been pretty much diminished. I have run ethanol in virtually everything I own that runs on gasoline, and I have run clear up to 20% biodiesel in every diesel I have owned. Nary a problem from any of them. And I had more to lose than most folks since the engine alone in my commercial truck costs more than most folks' Silverado 1500. The world is not going to come to an end if E15 hits the pumps.
  9. dsfloyd

    dsfloyd Epic Member 5+ Years ROTM Winner 1000 Posts

    Is the world going to end from it? Nope, but that being said I do have a problem with most crap the govt. pushes. Call me one of those whacko free market principle kinda guys. If the govt has to pump an industry with billions of dollars in support of an industry as a way to try and force it onto the market, I don't agree with it. In the end if I only have the choice of E15 then obviously I will buy it. Kind of like I can't buy leaded fuel for my land rover and use lead substitute. Just because people don't like a product (especially one that's being forced on people), that can cause issues in vehicles (obviously lots of factors cause issues, but why add more), doesn't mean we think that the world is going to end. And yes I realize you use that term as an exaggeration of a reaction. If a better solution was available that was cheaper and yet could make a business plenty of money it wouldn't need to be forced by the govt. now I'm sure it's time for the pollution, smog evil corporation lecture:lol:. Just my .02 but not sure if its worth the penny for my thoughts.
  10. Cowpie

    Cowpie Rockstar 3 Years 500 Posts

    Well, you fired shots all around but missed the target completely. There are NO government billions going to prop up ethanol. All subsidies were eliminated for a while now. Same is true for biodiesel. So this conspiracy nonsense about billions being pumped in to prop up something that cannot stand on its own is hog wash. Check all you want... with the Farm Bureau, your Senators and Congressman, the Dept of Agriculture, etc, etc, etc. There are NO subsidies going towards ethanol. The ethanol producers themselves lobbied to remove subsidies. Now I will concede, the EPA has its own agenda and wants to mandate higher levels of ethanol for some perceived benefit to the environment. That is questionable on its face, but that is another issue.

    Now you want to talk about corporate greed and government getting your tax dollars, take a look at those windmill generators going up around the country. If you want to pitch a fit about government propping up something, there is a better target.

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