[Family Force 6]

It's snowing like crazy here in Denver and I just drove our new to us 06 Tahoe from downtown to our home about 5 miles away. It was no bueno.
Some background info on the Tahoe
Full tank of gas
Tires: Cooper Discoverer AT3 with 60-70% tread remaining (maybe more)
G80 Differential
Stabilitrak

I made it home safely, but had difficulty starting from a stop. Backend would start to slide one direction or another almost every time. Braking was fine. Even on streets without snow pack (freshly laid snow) I had a hard time getting up slight inclines. I tried it in both 2nd gear and normal Drive- same result, very little traction with the unnerving feeling that the backend would slide around (not excessively). To be fair, it was very slick/icy but not ridiculously bad.

My wife refused to take it back downtown when she left a few minutes ago (daughter is playing in a volleyball tourney) We still have our '99 Suburban and my wife took that instead- said it handled "like a boss".

I'm seriously reconsidering my 2WD purchase. Some things I've read is that the 2WD Tahoes get around fine, but I was more than unimpressed.

Should I have disabled the Stabilitrak? Or are these just dicey vehicles in the snow?

 

[RayVoy]

My '09 is fine in 2WD (G80), my previous Envoy was fine in 2wd (also had G80). It is tires in my opinion. Try the '99's tires on the '06

 

[silverado002]

I agree with RayVoy about tires too but you're probably gonna need 4 wheel drive tomorrow. Good luck.

 

[Chesters]

It's snowing like crazy here in Denver and I just drove our new to us 06 Tahoe from downtown to our home about 5 miles away. It was no bueno.
Some background info on the Tahoe
Full tank of gas
Tires: Cooper Discoverer AT3 with 60-70% tread remaining (maybe more)
G80 Differential
Stabilitrak



My wife refused to take it back downtown when she left a few minutes ago (daughter is playing in a volleyball tourney) We still have our '99 Suburban and my wife took that instead- said it handled "like a boss".

I'm seriously reconsidering my 2WD purchase. Some things I've read is that the 2WD Tahoes get around fine, but I was more than unimpressed.

I agree with RayVoy about tires too but you're probably gonna need 4 wheel drive tomorrow. Good luck.

Soooo, IS The Tahoe a 4w drive? Y or N If Y then in the morning slip it into 4W High and head for the mouse trap. Cooper AT3 a good tire 50% will be fine might like a little more weight in the tail, but hey seems to be the thing now days with the FBG's anyway. Your cool good choice your in the zone!

If N then WTF it is a rear 2W drive, I know Denver doesn't hold her snow, but come on. Gonna need a lot more junk in the trunk! And still would not be my winter driver in Denver, Honolulu yes sir.
Ah but you have way to much vehicle moxie to try and pull that one off, no? Man good thing you took the time to get that Burb back in condition. Any body looking for a real nice Tahoe?

Have always said, if I'm done with it, I know somebody will give me a good buck for it!

Keep smilen,
Chet

 

[Paladin]

Try throwing 4-6 bags of sand in to back as close to the rear axle as possible. This will add 2-300 lbs of weight over the drive tires. I do this with my Silverado and it does help. Your gas mileage will suffer a bit, but IMO it is worth it for the benefit of the traction.

 

[Family Force 6]

@ Chesters- Yes, the Tahoe is 2WD.

I've driven RWD vehicles in Denver without too many issues for years. My current daily driver is a 95 BMW 325is. Now I did end up getting a second set of wheels with studded snows because that car has an open diff and wouldn't go anywhere in the snow/ice. Same thing with my previous daily driver and my son's current ride (93 Lincoln Town Car). It's an open diff but get's around just fine with studded snows and drove it a while with just all-seasons.

I figured that the Stabilitrak and limited slip / locker differential on the Tahoe would eliminate the need for studded snows. Not really too interested in buying a second set of wheels/tires for her.

I also played around with the Tahoe in the snow at low speeds and found the Stabilitrak confusing. When starting to slide if I let it on the gas it actually seemed to compound the slide in the wrong direction. Though I did read in the manual that the slide control piece of Stabilitrak only works when under acceleration. So are you supposed to keep the accelerator down as you begin to slide to use it properly?

Finally, does anyone have a good recommendation for an AT tire that does well in the snow? Some of the Discoverer AT3 reviews I've read seem to indicate that snow isn't one of the areas that is excels in.

 

[Pikey]

It has to be the tires! I had a 2wd extended cab silverado with Michelin ltx m/s tires on it. I live in Michigan and frequently drive unplowed dirt roads. In the 10 years I had the truck the only issue I ever had was making it up a hill on a unplowed dirt road that had 10" of fresh snow and about 7" in snow packed down on it. I had to make a few running starts to make it up the hill. It was a long (about 1/2 mile) steep incline. This was with no weight added to the bed. My 05 yukon xl has the same tires. The thing never slides sideways unless I want it to. I only bother putting it in 4x4 if I have more than 6" of fresh snow. 4x4 is just a a necessity in my xl. My dad had those coopers on his 2wd Avalanche and said that they were horrible in snow compared to the michelins he replaced

 

[Chesters]

Oh yea guys I agree you CAN do it, crap I drove my 66 GTO with MT's on the back thru the winter. But I did't have multiple choices back then either. My wife tried to drive a 94 Camero that we bought brand new and she would not be able to make it up our street back home a couple times a winter. One day she said that's it get me a 4wd and has never turned back. Myself, not for a daily driver in this area, hell I get 4 x 4's stuck in the middle of the roads! Most times I'm better off jumping off the road and using the cornfields if I know a particular hill curve desolate straight pice of road will be 2 to 4 or 5' deep in the dark at 4 am on my way to work.

But then that's nothing like driving the mouse trap during a snow storm, no that's a whole different monster! Oh, I'm normally by myself no family with me either, so yea I WOULD DEFINATLY CHOOSE a rear 2wd if I had my choice and family with me. I can just see me trying to make a couple of runs at a particular bad spot in Denver. Yea that's what I would choose, especially if I had MY choice. Yea right!

Just had to jump in didn't I? Go ahead, get those stones out of your hands!

Oh almost forgot, how do you think those studed tires would go over in your area Pikey LOL

 

[Pikey]

Studded tires are illegal here! There was only one time in the 10 years I owned that truck that I was afraid that I was going to get stuck. And that was on that hill, I was in the middle of nowhere. But it was a shortcut to work that I took every day. I never had snow tires on the truck just the Michelin multi season. Sure there were times when traffic would stop on a hill with a lot of snow on the ground where I would get slightly nervous about restarting again. But with the G80 never had an issue. Heck, if I came across a killer deal on a 2 Wheel Dr. Tahoe or yukon XL I would not hesitate to take it. There is a lot less maintenance necessary on a 2 Wheel Dr. truck

 

[Chesters]

Studded tires are illegal here! There was only one time in the 10 years I owned that truck that I was afraid that I was going to get stuck. And that was on that hill, I was in the middle of nowhere. But it was a shortcut to work that I took every day. I never had snow tires on the truck just the Michelin multi season. Sure there were times when traffic would stop on a hill with a lot of snow on the ground where I would get slightly nervous about restarting again. But with the G80 never had an issue. Heck, if I came across a killer deal on a 2 Wheel Dr. Tahoe or yukon XL I would not hesitate to take it. There is a lot less maintenance necessary on a 2 Wheel Dr. truck

And more HP ! thanks Pikey, thought that was going to hurt more!

 

[RayVoy]

I had to look up the AT3 tires, they look like they would be good snow/ice tires; but, I've bought work boots that also looked like they would be great on ice and spent the winter on my ass.
I use the Michelins as well and they work great in Saint John. We usually have a winter of freezing rain and ice and the right tire will work fine in 2wd. Not saying run out and buy new tires, just talking about what looks like it would work and what really does work.

 

[Chesters]

I think studded tires are pretty much illegle in most all states Pikey that was my point

guess having nothing but 4 x 4's might make a difference in my eyes, have a brand new set of the Coopers on my K1500 and they seem to dig every bit as well as the ProComps on my K2500 . Really only difference in my opinion is, the K2500 sits up a lot! higher. So consequently I go much further before I bottom out and sit farther from any help! Haven't happend to me this year, but if memory serves me every year in the past. This year the heart has kept me away from such foolishment

Ah but winter isn't over Chester!

 

[BillD64]

Have you driven vehicles with a limited slip diff before? When one of the tires lose traction the diff will transfer torque to the other side. However, sometimes there isn't enough traction for the amount of torque being applied and both wheels will slip. When you have both wheels slipping that can cause the rear to swing back and forth as you countersteer to correct for the swings. Non Limited Slip Diffs usually let one wheel spin and the other sit still so you don't get the swinging because one rear wheel is planted. You just need to be easy on the throttle and let the vehicle back end slide around. Sometimes you may be driving sideways to keep moving.

If you have good tires (all terrain or all season tires may not cut it) you will not have a problem. It doesn't matter whether the vehicle has 4WD, AWD or 2WD if you don't have good tires you will not get through snow and ice. You can have great mud tires and lousy performance. What I read about the AT3 on various sites is they don't do well once worn down over a couple of years.

The tire that will really make your vehicle perform in snow is the Michelin LTX M/S2. A little pricey but when I had my previous Tahoe with regular 4WD I never used it because these tires and a LSD got me through the deepest snow and slush with no issues at all. I could bring it to a stop on an icy hill and just go.

Bill

 

[RayVoy]

Bill, we agree on the LTX, best ice and snow tire I have every bought........however that comes with a cost..........it will peel a little off the gas mileage...........a hard rubber thread will deliver the best gas mileage.

I also agree with your LSD info, when both rear wheels are loose, there is no lateral stability and the rear end will "fall" to the low side of the road surface.

However, I disagree with the 2wd, all season, observation. A "good" driver can take a 2wd/all season tire vehicle into a lot of places, ya gotta know when to give a little gas and when to lift your right foot.

 

[BIGREDDADDY53]

How much weight did you have in the bed? I lived in Alberta for some time and a lot of 2wd have weight in the bed. The boys from the country used a bail of hay..

 

[Family Force 6]

How much weight did you have in the bed? I lived in Alberta for some time and a lot of 2wd have weight in the bed. The boys from the country used a bail of hay..

Well, it was a full tank of gas, but nothing in the back storage area (it is a Tahoe, not a pickup).

Have you driven vehicles with a limited slip diff before? When one of the tires lose traction the diff will transfer torque to the other side. However, sometimes there isn't enough traction for the amount of torque being applied and both wheels will slip. When you have both wheels slipping that can cause the rear to swing back and forth as you countersteer to correct for the swings. Non Limited Slip Diffs usually let one wheel spin and the other sit still so you don't get the swinging because one rear wheel is planted. You just need to be easy on the throttle and let the vehicle back end slide around. Sometimes you may be driving sideways to keep moving.
Bill

I have not ever driven a limited slip diff before. I know exactly how an open diff acts in the snow (I grew up in Denver and have driven it the white stuff plenty of times). Thanks for the heads up. Both my wife and I are more comfortable with the stabillitrac off as it seems to be easier to predict what the vehicle is going to do next. Guess we'll just need to get used to it.

 

[BIGREDDADDY53]

Sorry I had pickups on the brain but back in Montreal we used to put sand bags in the trunk not because of the snow but the ice under.

 

[BillD64]

Well, it was a full tank of gas, but nothing in the back storage area (it is a Tahoe, not a pickup).


I have not ever driven a limited slip diff before. I know exactly how an open diff acts in the snow (I grew up in Denver and have driven it the white stuff plenty of times). Thanks for the heads up. Both my wife and I are more comfortable with the stabillitrac off as it seems to be easier to predict what the vehicle is going to do next. Guess we'll just need to get used to it.

Stabilitrack doesn't do anything unusual unless you do something unusual. It gets its input from the direction you are turning the steering wheel and tries to make the vehicle go in the direction you want it to go. It compares the steering angle input with the yaw rate of the vehicle with the lateral Gs being pulled and determines if the vehicle is responding to your input appropriately, if it is swinging too fast (oversteer), if it is swinging too slow (understeer) and if a correction is required determines which brake to apply to bring the vehicle into line with your steering input.

To correct understeer (something that happens a lot in snow) it will apply the inside front or rear brake depending on the method the auto company has decided to use. To control oversteer it will apply the front or rear outside brake. A lot of GM cars use the front brake method. If you are on a slippery surface and make a left turn but the front end plows (understeer) you can feel it pulsing the left front brake to get the vehicle to yaw more to the left to match your steering input. In other cases where you might turn the steering to the left and the backend starts to come around because you took your foot off the gas too quickly at the wrong time it will pulse the right front brake to try and keep the back end where it belongs. If you are accelerating hard in a straight line and the back end starts to swing one way or the other it will brake one front wheel or the other to keep the backend in its place. Sometimes you also get an interaction with traction control which can reduce torque or apply a rear brake to aid the positraction in moving torque from one side of the vehicle to the other.

It is a fantastic aid but is limited to the laws of physics so may not help when you get too far out of control.

Bill