I have a '04 Silverado, 2wd, with the 5.3- single cab stepside and all that.... I'm more of the car type guy... I own a N2Omustang, which I race, but now, I wanna do some stuff my truck, w/out totally ruining driveability, and fuel efficiency"17mpg streets 23-25 hiway"---and i have 22' wheels now, and i haven't yet checked my mileage lately, and i know it's changed, all because those wheels are heavy..But I do use my truck, as a daily driver, and to haul my car to and from the tracks.... I'm stuck though... Do I get a cold air kit, a tune, some underdrive pulleys, and some long tubes, and stop there? Or can I do more, and still be able to have plenty of HP, TQ, and enough gas mileage?"and what else is there to do???" And yeah I know the ole saying, "the more power you make, the more gas, and rubber you're gonna burn".... But i was also just thinking of a Magnacharger, "or" some Nitrous w/ about 100hp-125hp dry shot then a good tune, with a programmer, the long tubes, and the set of pulleys, and that should put me at around mid 400hp range, which is about what would be nice.... I just wanna get all your pplz inputs....Thanks:neutral:
Anyone Have Any Pointers????
1 - 8 of 8 Posts
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Go light-get some lighter wheels-Centerline and others.
I would be tempted to try to drop some weight-especially wheel weight. You are most certainly right-those 22'' could weigh 40+ lbs each-some 50+ lbs.Add maybe 40 lbs of tire-??
I had some Centerline 17" (17x7.5" maybe 8") wheels that were under 21 lbs each. The stock steel wheels were about 31 lbs each(nissan titan)-you can drop a lot of weight with the right wheels/tires.You're a racer/hot rodder,so you know that dropping wheel weight is gold. You could even go to a shorter tire,and effectively get a "lower rear end' without having to screw around with your diff. Drop an 1" in tire height and it is like going from a 3.3 to a 3.4 diff.The lighter weight is supposed to improve suspension response also, but it is hard to notice.Lighter wheels Should improve city FE, but impossible to measure that.(there have been some problems in the past with Centerlines-breaking-something to keep in mind I guess)
Why bother with the CAI? For the same $300 you could get a NOS( used, but that is the beauty of GM products-there are mountains of aftermarket parts-new and used-out there at good prices). I would go really conservative-The 75 "shots" usually give about 35-40 rear wheel hp-your motor etc can take that with no problem.It won't hurt FE any and won't effect driveability at all either(except when you hit it of course).You can usually pull it easily enough if your state does some sort of inspection. You can also pull it before selling it.Young guy,CAI, Headers,aftermarket exhaust usually spell dogged car to most buyers.
Go with the Nitrous-you like it on your Mustang.Can't beat it for bang for the $$.
Luck,
Charlie
I would be tempted to try to drop some weight-especially wheel weight. You are most certainly right-those 22'' could weigh 40+ lbs each-some 50+ lbs.Add maybe 40 lbs of tire-??
I had some Centerline 17" (17x7.5" maybe 8") wheels that were under 21 lbs each. The stock steel wheels were about 31 lbs each(nissan titan)-you can drop a lot of weight with the right wheels/tires.You're a racer/hot rodder,so you know that dropping wheel weight is gold. You could even go to a shorter tire,and effectively get a "lower rear end' without having to screw around with your diff. Drop an 1" in tire height and it is like going from a 3.3 to a 3.4 diff.The lighter weight is supposed to improve suspension response also, but it is hard to notice.Lighter wheels Should improve city FE, but impossible to measure that.(there have been some problems in the past with Centerlines-breaking-something to keep in mind I guess)
Why bother with the CAI? For the same $300 you could get a NOS( used, but that is the beauty of GM products-there are mountains of aftermarket parts-new and used-out there at good prices). I would go really conservative-The 75 "shots" usually give about 35-40 rear wheel hp-your motor etc can take that with no problem.It won't hurt FE any and won't effect driveability at all either(except when you hit it of course).You can usually pull it easily enough if your state does some sort of inspection. You can also pull it before selling it.Young guy,CAI, Headers,aftermarket exhaust usually spell dogged car to most buyers.
Go with the Nitrous-you like it on your Mustang.Can't beat it for bang for the $$.
Luck,
Charlie
Thanks I appreciate it... Yeah i know about dropping the wheel weight and all that, but the thing of it is...is that I just got these 22's, and it looks so good "LOL"... But yeah on the Mustang, I have the Weld Drag Lites, slix on the back, and the skinneys on the front, i could tell a huge difference from street tires, "and it was nice". But yeah with the truck, I'm a keep the 22's like they are, and I have the smallest size tire that will fit on my rim "265-40r-22", i coulda gone with the 305's but they are too big and stick out too wide "not my style"... But you're right, I'm probably just gonna go and get it tuned, the pulley kit, full length headers, the intake kit, and some NOS, and be done with it...it should be the suttle rice killer on 22's that looks like a sleeper...LoL...
GOT another Question...
Whats the difference between chipping the truck, and getting a programmer??
And which is better, "for my pocket and my truck on the longevity and hp/torque ends"??
Thanks
JP
GOT another Question...
Whats the difference between chipping the truck, and getting a programmer??
And which is better, "for my pocket and my truck on the longevity and hp/torque ends"??
Thanks
JP
Joined
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1,667 Posts
Yep, the big wheels look good!
I'm an oldster(56), but I have to agree, the big wheels look good,and for a street truck they make more sense than lifting the truck,and sticking huge,fat, heavy, big lugged(noisy,and they eat gas) tires on it.The lifted, big offroad looking tired look was the desirable look when I was younger,and it general it made even less functional sense than the big rim/small sidewall look the younger guys go for now. At least with big rims/short sidewalls you can get less squirm and a more sporting ride on the street.The lifted big tired lugged look is actually poison-function wise-on the street-dangerous(flip), noisy,and the big mud type tires just ate gas. LOOKED GOOD AT THE TIME, OF COURSE!!
I'm an extremely recent GM SUV(1998 suburban)-owned just 12 days,so I should stay away from the particulars of small block electronic tuning.I not dead sure of the difference, but I would always go for the mod that can most easily be reversed.The chip is an actual add-on plug in you piggyback onto your black box,right? The reprogram. actually required you download a program into your blackbox with your laptop?? I would go with the piggyback rather than fooling with the programing.If it goes sour,doesn't work right,screws up in some fashion, you can just unplug the chip,and all is well.With the reprograming, you have to actually plug in your laptop again to rid yourself of it,right?? You might be still under warranty-2004-maybe the chip would be tougher for any GM mechanics to tell you fooled with it(though in some cases you might want to mention it for diagnostic purposes, but I would always be careful about revealing mods to factory folks).
I bet the chip vs reprogram is very close in which makes more power-go with the easier one.
A complete aside, but one huge advantage of GM is that they offer new motors-some dead on OEM,but some real performance motors.They are new, made by GM-not some BS aftermarket rebuilt POS. I could buy a new in the crate 1998 replacement 5.7 for $2300+ shipping!! GM now offers what they say is a drop in 5.7 stroker(383) set up for factory electronic FI!!-It is $4200, but has forged crank,4 bolt, etc.It is supposed to make 340 hp,and maybe 435 lb-ft
GM offers a high output 5.3-makes 335 hp-crate motor for your truck for $3050-a new motor-not a rebuild.It has a hotter cam and graphite coated pistons-(kinda cool!!).It didn't say if it was EPA legal, but it might be(or close enough-the cat con usually cleans it up enough for sniffers anyway).This is over 10%-and you can still use the underdrive pulleys and N20, of course(the intake and exhaust mods also)
You will probably spend about $1000 on the intake,exhaust,pulleys,and maybe 10-20 hours of your labor.For $2500 more(probably $3500 with shipping) you'll get more bang.The headers,exhaust, intake stuff usually only adds about 5%(15 hp total) on top,and frequently leaves some holes down low,so maybe the vehicle isn't much quicker accelerating from many roll on speeds.This GM motor probably won't have any holes at all(except the hole in your wallet, but $3500 isn't much hot rod wise-bet you have a lot more in your Mustang)).
By the way-how quick is your Mustang??They are low 15 sec cars in stock form,right?
Well,I have run on, but the GM motor is a lot of bang for the $$-with a warranty also.
I have gotten kinda conservative in my old age,and decided that I probably can't beat the factory with aftermarket bolt ons.They are fun to do, but over the years I found that they usually don't really work-more noise, look cool, but rarely was the vehicle actually "street" faster.The factories do a very good job making their stock intake plumbing and exhaust work well at all RPMs.Factory stuff "looks" slow,and looks like it makes the air/gases make tight turns, but it just works better than the aftermarket stuff.Still, it is fun!
The aftermarket stuff usually is lighter, of course.
Luck,
Charlie
I'm an oldster(56), but I have to agree, the big wheels look good,and for a street truck they make more sense than lifting the truck,and sticking huge,fat, heavy, big lugged(noisy,and they eat gas) tires on it.The lifted, big offroad looking tired look was the desirable look when I was younger,and it general it made even less functional sense than the big rim/small sidewall look the younger guys go for now. At least with big rims/short sidewalls you can get less squirm and a more sporting ride on the street.The lifted big tired lugged look is actually poison-function wise-on the street-dangerous(flip), noisy,and the big mud type tires just ate gas. LOOKED GOOD AT THE TIME, OF COURSE!!
I'm an extremely recent GM SUV(1998 suburban)-owned just 12 days,so I should stay away from the particulars of small block electronic tuning.I not dead sure of the difference, but I would always go for the mod that can most easily be reversed.The chip is an actual add-on plug in you piggyback onto your black box,right? The reprogram. actually required you download a program into your blackbox with your laptop?? I would go with the piggyback rather than fooling with the programing.If it goes sour,doesn't work right,screws up in some fashion, you can just unplug the chip,and all is well.With the reprograming, you have to actually plug in your laptop again to rid yourself of it,right?? You might be still under warranty-2004-maybe the chip would be tougher for any GM mechanics to tell you fooled with it(though in some cases you might want to mention it for diagnostic purposes, but I would always be careful about revealing mods to factory folks).
I bet the chip vs reprogram is very close in which makes more power-go with the easier one.
A complete aside, but one huge advantage of GM is that they offer new motors-some dead on OEM,but some real performance motors.They are new, made by GM-not some BS aftermarket rebuilt POS. I could buy a new in the crate 1998 replacement 5.7 for $2300+ shipping!! GM now offers what they say is a drop in 5.7 stroker(383) set up for factory electronic FI!!-It is $4200, but has forged crank,4 bolt, etc.It is supposed to make 340 hp,and maybe 435 lb-ft
GM offers a high output 5.3-makes 335 hp-crate motor for your truck for $3050-a new motor-not a rebuild.It has a hotter cam and graphite coated pistons-(kinda cool!!).It didn't say if it was EPA legal, but it might be(or close enough-the cat con usually cleans it up enough for sniffers anyway).This is over 10%-and you can still use the underdrive pulleys and N20, of course(the intake and exhaust mods also)
You will probably spend about $1000 on the intake,exhaust,pulleys,and maybe 10-20 hours of your labor.For $2500 more(probably $3500 with shipping) you'll get more bang.The headers,exhaust, intake stuff usually only adds about 5%(15 hp total) on top,and frequently leaves some holes down low,so maybe the vehicle isn't much quicker accelerating from many roll on speeds.This GM motor probably won't have any holes at all(except the hole in your wallet, but $3500 isn't much hot rod wise-bet you have a lot more in your Mustang)).
By the way-how quick is your Mustang??They are low 15 sec cars in stock form,right?
Well,I have run on, but the GM motor is a lot of bang for the $$-with a warranty also.
I have gotten kinda conservative in my old age,and decided that I probably can't beat the factory with aftermarket bolt ons.They are fun to do, but over the years I found that they usually don't really work-more noise, look cool, but rarely was the vehicle actually "street" faster.The factories do a very good job making their stock intake plumbing and exhaust work well at all RPMs.Factory stuff "looks" slow,and looks like it makes the air/gases make tight turns, but it just works better than the aftermarket stuff.Still, it is fun!
The aftermarket stuff usually is lighter, of course.
Luck,
Charlie
Yeah I know what you mean about those big wheels...I used to have a S-10 4x4, and I put 33' tires on it w/ a 15x7.5', so yeah i got caught up in those days, besides it was 4x4, and I was out in the country of SC..And now I've changed my style to big wheels, "not like 24' or 26's like the rappers, or how some these guys the cutless' ride around here "thats ugly". I just go for a stylish clean look, and still try to keep it sporty yet simple, kinda like the saying goes "less is more". So far all I've done to my truck is 22's, Cal Vue sport style mirrors, blacked out windows, billet grille, painted the bow tie black "same as the truck", black out headlight covers, tinted vent shades, chrome door handles, exhaust, and taillights...My final touches that I want are the Ram-Air hood "the real one" from stylin concepts, a bed cover, belltech's lowering system 2' front drop 4' rear drop', helper bags in the rear, and a SS front bumper cover w/ billet inserts... By the way I found a considerable, and reasonable performance shop around here that knows about tuning and programming, they cars and trucks...They did a silverado just like mine except on 20's, and regular bed, and he was getting it tuned for NOS, and after all of his mods, and tune. He made 412rwhp and 429rwtq... Wasn't too shabby.. But I'm just gonna talk to those guys and find that guy and see what all of them think, and see how his truck his holding up against that NOS... As for my Mustang, Its not stock I'll tell you that.. There is a long story behind me and that car..I got it when i was 18 as a b-day present, 4 months later i shipped out to TX for basic training "I'm in the AF, Active duty", I stayed in TX for 10 months w/ out a vehicle, and doing but training... Then i got shipped out to S. Korea for a yr. I recieved my bonus, and tax return, practically in the same week...Then it was on, in less then 3.5 months dumped a little over $8,000 into that car, I was having my Dad send it off to difference places while i was still in Korea...By the time i got back, it was loaded... New paint sonic blue flip flop silver, 90/10 front struts, 50/50 rear struts, moroso launch drag springs, Dart heads ported and shaved stage 2, Full comp valve train, comp cam 224/230 duration 569/569 lift, 1.6 rockers, new axles, wheels, electrics fan, guages, Zex Nitrous system "175 shot", BBK allumnum drive shaft, Tremec tranny, Cold Air kit, 75mm TB, long tubes, Richmond 4.10 gears, pro 5.0 shifter, Fluidyne 3 core Radiator, Trick Flow Track Heat U/L intake system "ported and shaved as well"...And I think that's it...And by the way, the bottom end was never touched, the car is a 1990, that is the yr the 5.0 came w/ a factory forged bottom end... Its been 4 yrs since all that was done, I've been through 2 trannys, and never again will i put a Tremec in one of my vehicles..But none the less on the N2O at the track in 1/8th it runs 6.7's consistanly...w/ a 1.4-1.5 60ft, off the gas it runs 7.50-7.70...I have a Performance Automatic built C4 in it now, it's worth about $6,000, I got it for $1,000 from a buddy, it came out of a 5.70 real street car, and i've never had any problems...But thats my story, and yeah my car is still a pump gas motor, and has dynoed 2x's on the N2O-508rwhp all motor -372rwhp "nitrous makes up for a lot", and a auto tranny, u lose 35-50rwhp...It's all good, its a fun car...But with my truck, I'll get it sorted out, And try not to break it as many times as I've broken my stang... I'll keep ya posted on whats happenin with it...
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1,667 Posts
Yes, just a little over $3500 in that pony.
Wow, yes,I guess you have a LITTLE more than $3500 in your Mustang!!I sent a 1980 Yamaha SR500 head(single cylinder 2 valve kickstart street bike ) to France to have the intake port raised,and a second plug plumbed in.It cost me about $1000 in 1995, but you make me look like a piker! It was a nearly pointless exercise of course-it made maybe 25 hp stock-my seat dyno says it might make 40 now(really,really slow for a motorcycle!!).
It is nice to have a good shop near you.We don't really have any around here that I would have any faith in.
Luck,
Charlie
Wow, yes,I guess you have a LITTLE more than $3500 in your Mustang!!I sent a 1980 Yamaha SR500 head(single cylinder 2 valve kickstart street bike ) to France to have the intake port raised,and a second plug plumbed in.It cost me about $1000 in 1995, but you make me look like a piker! It was a nearly pointless exercise of course-it made maybe 25 hp stock-my seat dyno says it might make 40 now(really,really slow for a motorcycle!!).
It is nice to have a good shop near you.We don't really have any around here that I would have any faith in.
Luck,
Charlie
Yeah its nice to have around me, but they are always competing, and you hear negatives about different then you the positives, so you always get lost on who to go to...I just look at people's work, prices, products, and decide for myself... But with your bike, that sounds like might of taken a while, to go to France... I've had parts shipped to Tx, Tn, NC, & FL just to have things done right, and I've been happy so "except for when i threw a rocker arm in my heads, that hurt, and its a painful sound"... But besides my Mustang, and the truck, I have a toy i play with around the neighborhood, one of those lill pocketrockets, its fun a 47cc motor... But with my truck, I've made my mind up, and after talking to a few buddies...I got that truck for haulin the car, and driving around town...Yeah it wont hurt to do a few mods to it, but for now my goals are set on getting the truck looking like i want it, then getting those mods, and here and there toying with the mustang "there is always something it can use"...But this weekend i'll try to take some pics and post them...But until then, you guys keep it between the lines, and dont anything i wouldn't do...
see ya
JP
see ya
JP
Joined
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1,667 Posts
Yep, you just don't know about shops.
Yeah, you just don't know about shops; one guy loves then,someone else has a horror story about the same shop.
You are going light on the performance mods now-makes sense since your Truck is the work horse of your stable. The appearance mods rarely hurt the performance -or worse-actually break the truck.
Sending the head to France was definitely the absolutely most extreme thing I ever did.It happened because in about 1980(bought my 1st of 12 SR500's in 1980)I read an article about Kenny Roberts winning a dirt track race(in the Houston Astrodome) on a modified TT500(a full dirt bike with the same motor as the street only SR500).The article said it made 50 hp!! Since it made about 25 hp stock,I was really impressed!Of course,the motor/bike had been prepared by CR Axtell-a very famous 4 stroke bike tuner, but I figured I was probably 90% as good as Axtell,and could get 45 hp easily!!Ha,Ha!!
Well, White Bros-at the time a sorta new 4 stroke aftermarket company that was know for fast TT500 motors-had a mod they called "HIGH PORTING."
They quit doing it(and maybe didn't really do it to 1980 and later heads). Finally in about 1995,I saw this French company advertising(in a 4 stroke single club magazine) about SR500 work/parts.The Euros LOVED their Yamaha 500's-not sure why, but so did the Japanese.They had a HUGE aftermarket for it.I sent the head for all alll expenses paid vacation to France.I was obviously out of my mind!
I still have that bike, but kickstarting isn't much fun-56 yo-especially in the summer-the start circuit on the carb is extremely rich.Starts great in the winter, not so good summer.
Crazy but fun.
Luck,
Charlie
Yeah, you just don't know about shops; one guy loves then,someone else has a horror story about the same shop.
You are going light on the performance mods now-makes sense since your Truck is the work horse of your stable. The appearance mods rarely hurt the performance -or worse-actually break the truck.
Sending the head to France was definitely the absolutely most extreme thing I ever did.It happened because in about 1980(bought my 1st of 12 SR500's in 1980)I read an article about Kenny Roberts winning a dirt track race(in the Houston Astrodome) on a modified TT500(a full dirt bike with the same motor as the street only SR500).The article said it made 50 hp!! Since it made about 25 hp stock,I was really impressed!Of course,the motor/bike had been prepared by CR Axtell-a very famous 4 stroke bike tuner, but I figured I was probably 90% as good as Axtell,and could get 45 hp easily!!Ha,Ha!!
Well, White Bros-at the time a sorta new 4 stroke aftermarket company that was know for fast TT500 motors-had a mod they called "HIGH PORTING."
They quit doing it(and maybe didn't really do it to 1980 and later heads). Finally in about 1995,I saw this French company advertising(in a 4 stroke single club magazine) about SR500 work/parts.The Euros LOVED their Yamaha 500's-not sure why, but so did the Japanese.They had a HUGE aftermarket for it.I sent the head for all alll expenses paid vacation to France.I was obviously out of my mind!
I still have that bike, but kickstarting isn't much fun-56 yo-especially in the summer-the start circuit on the carb is extremely rich.Starts great in the winter, not so good summer.
Crazy but fun.
Luck,
Charlie
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