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Discussion Starter #1
GM has made a major commitment to producing E85 flexible fuel vehicles and promoting the use of E85 ethanol, an alternative fuel made of 85 percent ethanol and 15 percent gasoline. Producing E85 flexible fuel vehicles is one part of GM’s strategy to reduce vehicle emissions and dependence on petroleum, along with advanced technologies like hybrid powertrains and hydrogen fuel cell vehicles.
Today, GM is a leader in producing E85 FlexFuel vehicles with more than two million of them on the road in the U.S. and an annual production of more than 400,000. For the 2007 model year, GM is offering 16 E85 vehicle models. Download the E85 FlexFuel Vehicle Information sheet [PDF 200 KB].
For more information on E85 ethanol and GM’s commitment to it, click on the links at the right.
GM’s 2007 model year E85 vehicles include:
 

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Meijer and GM Celebrate Opening of Twentieth E85 Ethanol Pump at Michigan

Pump opening part of ongoing partnership to make E85 ethanol more available to Michigan drivers


Michigan Dept. of Agriculture Director Mitch Irwin
(left) and GM Vehicle Emissions Issues Director
Bob Babik (right) look on as Meijer CEO Hank
Meijer tests the latest E85 ethanol pump instal-
lation at the Meijer station.
CANTON, Mich. (Feb. 27, 2007) — Meijer and General Motors joined together today to celebrate the opening of Meijer’s twentieth E85 ethanol fueling location in the state of Michigan. Today’s event marks the completion of twenty new E85 ethanol pumps, following a joint commitment entered into back in April of last year between GM, Meijer, CleanFUEL USA and the State of Michigan.
Mitch Irwin, director of the Michigan Department of Agriculture, was on hand to celebrate today’s opening. "This partnership and others like it will fuel Michigan's future," said Irwin. "Strong public policy support and private industry expertise are key ingredients to establishing a thriving renewable energy market, but it is innovation and commitment that will position our state as a national leader."
As part of this collaboration, local GM dealers are helping to promote the new refueling stations when customers purchase FlexFuel vehicles and GM will continue to focus on increasing awareness of E85 ethanol as a renewable, alternative fuel that is able to meet the demands of today’s drivers. To drive awareness around E85 ethanol and to encourage customers to consider using this cleaner burning fuel, Meijer has been selling ethanol at all of the 20 locations for 10 cents less than the price of unleaded gas.
Meijer, a Michigan company with headquarters in Grand Rapids, Michigan, strives to provide the freshest product to its customers. E85 ethanol is one of those fresh products, providing a cleaner burning fuel alternative and a new way to think about dependency on petroleum.
“Meijer took a first, but large step toward creating real choices for its customers at the pump when we committed to opening 20 E85 ethanol stations across the state,” said Hank Meijer, co chairman of Meijer, Inc. “Fulfillment of this commitment is the foundation of Meijer’s overall focus on environmental stewardship for the future.”

Michigan Dept. of Agriculture Director Mitch Irwin
acknowledges the latest E85 ethanol pump
installation at the Meijer station.
Michigan is also home to one of the largest concentrations of GM’s E85 flexible fuel vehicles in the country, with more than 140,000 in use. Meijer’s 20 E85 ethanol pumps will allow even more Michigan drivers to fill up with the alternative, renewable fuel.
“At GM, we believe that the biofuel with the greatest potential to displace petroleum-based fuels in the U.S. is ethanol, and we have made a major commitment to vehicles that can run on E85 ethanol—with over two million of our FlexFuel vehicles on the road today,” said Elizabeth Lowery, GM vice president of environment and energy. “We’re pleased to join Meijer in celebrating its twentieth E85 ethanol pump in the state and we commend Meijer on joining our efforts to make E85 ethanol available to more Michigan motorists.”
Meijer and CleanFUEL USA, the E85 fuel provider, have been working together to identify and install new E85 fueling locations across the state over the past year.
"One of CleanFUEL USA’s primary missions is to make alternative fuels available as quickly and efficiently as possible to everyone,” said Russell C. Youngdahl, Jr., CEO and director, CleanFUEL USA. “We’re pleased to have come closer to accomplishing that mission in Michigan."
GM’s E85 partnership and marketing campaign are designed to encourage greater E85 use and showcase GM’s E85 FlexFuel vehicle leadership to U.S. consumers. E85 FlexFuel vehicles can run on any combination of gasoline and/or E85, a fuel blend of 85 percent ethanol and 15 percent gasoline. E85 can contribute to energy independence because it diversifies the source of transportation fuels beyond petroleum, and it provides positive environmental benefits in the form of reduced greenhouse gas emissions.
Today, GM has over two million E85 FlexFuel vehicles on the road in all 50 states, and will produce more this year. For the 2007 model year, GM is offering 16 E85 ethanol-capable vehicle models, with an annual production of more than 400,000 vehicles. This is more than any other manufacturer.
GM believes that developing alternative sources of energy and propulsion is the key to mitigating many of the issues surrounding energy availability. Producing E85 FlexFuel vehicles is one part of GM’s strategy to help reduce the use of petroleum and also reduce vehicle emissions. GM’s strategy also includes improving the efficiency of the traditional internal combustion engine with technologies available today; and developing electrically-driven vehicles such as hybrids, plug-in hybrids, fuel cell vehicles, and electric vehicles.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
What Is E85?

E85 is a blend of 85 percent ethanol and 15 percent gasoline. Ethanol is a high octane, liquid fuel that allows E85 to provide more horsepower and torque than standard gasoline.
Aside from improved performance characteristics, E85 ethanol also burns cleaner than gasoline and helps to reduce smog-forming emissions and greenhouse gases.
In the U.S., ethanol is typically produced from corn and other grain products and also helps to reduce dependence on petroleum. In the future, ethanol may be produced from other biomass resources like agricultural and forestry wastes or specially grown energy crops.
FACTS ABOUT E85 AND ETHANOL
The Environment

  • Using E85 helps to reduce greenhouse gases.
  • Using E85 helps to reduce dependence on petroleum, and helps to create greater diversity in our nation's energy supplies and sources.
  • Ethanol, the major component of E85, is a renewable fuel.
Energy Independence

  • Using E85 ethanol can help to support the domestic agriculture industry because most ethanol in the U.S. is made from domestically-produced corn.
E85 Availability

  • Today there are more than 1,000 E85 ethanol stations in the U.S.
Vehicle Performance on E85

  • Using E85 ethanol helps to improve vehicle performance because E85 ethanol has a higher octane rating than gasoline which allows for more horsepower and torque.
  • Vehicles running on E85 may have a cruising range that is about 25 percent shorter than the same vehicle operating on gasoline.
 

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Really it doesn't matter how many E85 vehicles are produced until...

#1 - E85 is made affordable( ie; cheap enough to off set the drastic drop in MPG )

and

#2 - E85 is available nationwide at enough stations so people can use it. Right now there are only some 1100 stations in the entire country that have E85( according to the web site I saw ).

I actually got my NBS with the FlexFuel 5.3L just in case the above ever happens. I wanted the ability to use E85 "IF" we ever get stations here with it( closest one is over 100 miles away and that one is the only one in all of the surrounding states ). Of course until they manage to produce it cheaply enough, if they ever do, to offset that drop in MPG I would not run it anyway.
 

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I have considered going to E85 and growing my own for some time.

Problem is retrofitting my current vehicles. I refuse to buy new ones that will run the E85 so unless I can find an inexpensive way to convert I guess I’m stuck.
 

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Really it doesn't matter how many E85 vehicles are produced until...

#1 - E85 is made affordable( ie; cheap enough to off set the drastic drop in MPG )

and

#2 - E85 is available nationwide at enough stations so people can use it. Right now there are only some 1100 stations in the entire country that have E85( according to the web site I saw ).

I actually got my NBS with the FlexFuel 5.3L just in case the above ever happens. I wanted the ability to use E85 "IF" we ever get stations here with it( closest one is over 100 miles away and that one is the only one in all of the surrounding states ). Of course until they manage to produce it cheaply enough, if they ever do, to offset that drop in MPG I would not run it anyway.

You hit it right on the head. If the enviromentalist's want everyone to switch to enviromentally friendly vehicles then they have to make it affordable. No one is going to spent more money on a vehicle that uses a fuel that costs more then gasoline and gets worse gas mileage. Hybrid are actually worse for the enviroment then a gas car.(Batteries). I think the possible future could lie in Hydrogen run vehicles. But who really knows.
 

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Can I stick an ear of corn into my gas tank to give me the same results?

I'm not convinced that E85 is worth it yet. First off, gas mileage drops off quite a bit, so you'll need a bigger tank to go the same miles and it also takes a lot of energy to produce the 21 pounds of corn that it takes to make 1 gallon of Ethanol.

I found a site that broke down the math, basicly says there isn't enough land in the US to plant enough corn for everyone to go E85.

Facts:
One gallon of ethanol = 21.6 lbs of corn
The yield of one acre of corn = 7100 lbs of corn
Amount of gasoline that U.S. consumes in one day = 9,200,000 barrels
One barrel can hold 42 gallons
One gallon of gasoline = 1.5 gallons of ethanol
One acre of land = .004 km2
The surface land area of the U.S. = 9,161,923 km2
Arable land in the U.S. 18.01%
Math
One acre of corn production in gallons: 21.6 pounds / 7100 pounds = 328 gallons

U.S. daily consumption in gallons: 9,200,000 barrels / 42 gallons = 378,000,000 gallons

U.S. daily consumption need in ethanol: 378,000,000 gallons of gasoline * 1.5 = 567,000,000 gallons

U.S. corn acreage daily need to produce enough ethanol: 567,000,000 gallons / 328 gallons = 1,700,000 acres

U.S. corn acreage yearly need to produce enough ethanol: 1,700,000 acres * 365 days = 630,000,000 acres

Surface area required to meet the U.S. yearly need of corn to make ethanol: 630,000,000 acres * .004 km2 = 2,520,000 km2

Arable land divided by total land surface in U.S.: 18.01% * 9,161,923 = 1,650,062.33 km2
 

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Ethanol can be made from many things. Corn, soybeans( believe I read that anyway ), sawgrass, sugarcane, etc... It is possible that eventually we could produce enough ethanol to run our vehicles on it like Brazil does( from sugar cane ). However, I personally doubt this is the answer to our fuel crisis.
 

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Sugar beets give you more bang for your buck.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Beets give me more bang for the buck too. Brussel sprouts send me over the top.....:whistle:
 

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In the mean-time, the price of these commodities are going up and I heard on the radio that it's impacting poorer countries like Mexico, becuase corn is being used for E85, torilla prices have gone up (I think they said 4x) in the past year or two.
 

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I should get to drive an E85 Chevy Truck of some type in the next few weeks, I've heard that while it gets less MPG, it's putting less wear and tear on the engine so it should last longer.

I thought one of the issues with alcohol-based fuels was a higher operating temp that caused a quicker engine breakdown. I'll be interested in seeing how these E85 engines last.
 

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I should get to drive an E85 Chevy Truck of some type in the next few weeks, I've heard that while it gets less MPG, it's putting less wear and tear on the engine so it should last longer.

I thought one of the issues with alcohol-based fuels was a higher operating temp that caused a quicker engine breakdown. I'll be interested in seeing how these E85 engines last.

Been doing some reading online and long term tests show that E85 kills engines due to the higher operating temps.

Its sort of like when chevy adapted their 350 to run on diesel (I believe the 198X monte-carlo used it, those engines were a POS. If they have such a hard-on for e-85, then they have to make an engine that runs on E85 only.

Not this hybrid crap.
 

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In an ideal world, your car would run on gas, diesel, E85, or biodiesel, that way the consumer could shop for whatever fuel was the cheapest. Competition will keep prices lower. Since we don't live in an ideal world, I expect we will see cars that run on all of those and hybrids, fuel cell powered, and vegetable oil too.
 

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i read in car and driver a while back when they was first came out with this e85 and they test drove a 07 Chevy tahoe that was e85 . they first ran it with reg gas then ran it with e85 and the results was 5 gallons less than reg gas so if you get say 15 miles per gal with reg gas you will get 10 miles per gal with e85 from the test they did. so my advice stick with the reg gas. e85 not worth it.jmo
 

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E-100 Home Made Fuel

If we could get rid of the Bureaucrats like Chappaquiddick Teddy and Hitlary then we could all make our own fuel like the farmers did when I was a kid!!! Heck we've been racing on Alky-motors in the south for 100 years !!! All I'll have to do is change my jets and plugs because my fuel pumps and everything else are compatible and then I'll have almost 0% emissions. The Bureaucrat NAZIs just want their retirement fund paid for by folks like me, with all their pork taxes and monopoly on fuel !!!:grrrrrr::fighting0019::slap::whip:
 

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No TB is on the E85 list...

I notivced there is not TB on the list for E85... I'd like to have the flexability of an alternative fuel (does nto mena I'll use it). So, what does conversion look like ? New hose, sensor and reprogramming ?

Just curious....
 

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Ethanol energy content

Sorry for the belated post but I just joined this forum.

In case anyone still wonders about the E85.

Ethanol's energy content is 1/3 less than gasoline. This means that with 100% ethanol, everything else equal, you would need 50% more fuel to keep up with performances. "Poor" mileage experienced by E85 users is the result of this simple physical fact.

This link provides additional background/explanation: http://zfacts.com/p/436.html

- Sandro
 
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