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A friend of mine sent me this link. I thought I would share it with the group.
http://www.roadblock.org/
I don't normally get involved in political issues (too much controversy), but it almost seems like since he knows his term is up soon there's no point in making good decisions.
Don't get me wrong, I'm not jumping on the "I hate bush" bandwagon like the rest of the people who DID vote for him. Just seems kind of disappointing that he doesn't seem to care anymore.

I sincerely hope this thread does not turn into a political bash fest...lest I will have to smite some posts....:tongue:

Tactful, and thoughtful opinions are welcome
 

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I'm all about personal liberty, but driving is a privilege not a right. Driving while under the influence poses a danger to the motoring public. Normal folks don't understand the problem drinker, the alcoholic or the addict.

Most people don't have to start their day with a bit of the "hair of the dog" and don't understand that there are drivers under the influence 24/7. Most people picture the alcoholic or addict as the homeless person on the park bench with a brown bag. They don't realize the alcoholic and addicts are not just the drunken bum. They are doctors, lawyers, truck drivers and pilots that often go to work everyday.

The "Avoid the 25" program here in San Bernardino County where I live has been very effective in taking drivers under the influence off the roads. They also catch those driving with no insurance or without a license too. In SoCal we have a high number of Illegal immigrants who drive without license or insurance that are caught in these roadblocks.

I'm sure the family of CHP Officer Greg Bailey would wish that Domingo Esqueda could have been picked up before he plowed into the Officer while driving intoxicated at twice the legal limit.


I support DUI safety checks and hope they are expanded to get more alcoholics/addicts into recovery and unlicensed, non-insured off the roads.
 

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Not being American I think I too will stay out of this discussion. But I will add we have a program that does the same thing called R.I.D.E. (reducing impaired drivers everywhere) I too like this program and encourage it. I don't even have one drink then drive. (Personal family loss myself thru D.U.I.)
I have no problem being pulled over for a minute to be checked. (plus we get a booklet of nice coupons for Timmies coffee) :biggrin:
 

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Not being American I think I too will stay out of this discussion. But I will add we have a program that does the same thing called R.I.D.E. (reducing impaired drivers everywhere) I too like this program and encourage it. I don't even have one drink then drive. (Personal family loss myself thru D.U.I.)
I have no problem being pulled over for a minute to be checked. (plus we get a booklet of nice coupons for Timmies coffee) :biggrin:
Are you serious, if you pass the check point you get a coupon book for Tim hortons?:lol:I would think avid coffee drinkers would be looking for any chance they could to get pulled over at a check point.

As far as sobriety check points, I have nothing against them. I suspect the only people who would are the people who stand to get busted while in one. I think the check points are a great thing, and certainly they could use additional funding. I'm sure there is something else that could take a cut in funding besides alcohol abuse programs, which are IMO directly related to the check points.

The whole alcohol abuse issue is a problem that needs appropriate funding on all fronts, prevention, as well as check points.

Also, I'm sure that article has taken the reality of the subject completely out of context anyway, as it seems a bit biased.
 

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Are you serious, if you pass the check point you get a coupon book for Tim hortons?:lol:I would think avid coffee drinkers would be looking for any chance they could to get pulled over at a check point.

Ah ya like that do ya. Why are Canadians addicted to coffee and donuts I don't know...
 

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Maybe I'm a bit too self-centered and too big on personal privacy, but I don't like being stopped unless I've done something wrong or am suspected of having done something wrong.

The fact that 1% of drivers are under the influence (or whatever the rate is) at all times doesn't give them the right to pull me over. I don't really consider driving to be "privlidge", that's a loaded term, it's more of a state license to make certain that you can handle the vehicle safely and that you understand the rule of the road. Inside of my car is an extension of personal property for example. Lots of people drive for purely commercial reasons, etc.

It's not the same thing, but it's like saying that because x number of children are abused every year that the government should be allowed to inspect every home for potential child abuse...granted, some child abuse would be caught, but I don't like the big brother approach.

I think the solution really is massively intense punishment. If someone drives drunk once it should hurt. Twice they shoud lose the right to drive for the rest of their life. If they drive after that drunk the should go to jail for the rest of their life, make a federal camp out in the middle of Arizona or something and send them all there.
 

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Discussion Starter #8 (Edited)
Well, speaking in legalese (legal terms), a license turns a right into a privilage. It's an abitrary control. It makes something illegal that would not ordinarily be illegal. How many things do we need licenses for these days that we would not have needed licenses for 25, 50 100 years ago?
 

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I think the solution really is massively intense punishment. If someone drives drunk once it should hurt. Twice they shoud lose the right to drive for the rest of their life. If they drive after that drunk the should go to jail for the rest of their life, make a federal camp out in the middle of Arizona or something and send them all there.
Teetotalers and normal drinkers find it hard to understand why punishment has little or no effect on the alcoholic or addict. Punishment deters the problem drinker and recreational user. An alcoholic/addict doesn't care about losing a wife, kids, house, job or ruining his health and goes to ANY LENGTH to get drunk or loaded. A jail sentence is only an inconvenience that gets in the way of the next binge. A normal person doesn't want to go to jail for DUI, and changes behavior to avoid the punishment. The alcoholic/addict doesn't admit he has a problem and rationalizes their behavior including DUI.
 

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Ok, point taken. I guess I didn't ever look up the technical meaning of the world privilege before when applied to law. :neutral:

Regardless, application of investigation into if someone has violated the rules should be done in accordance with the rest of the laws and probable cause is needed.
 

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Roadblocks

The operators of the website "Roadblock.org" seem to adopt the Libertarian viewpoint that as a free and "responsible" society roadblocks are unnecessary and an infrigment on civil rights, just as drug laws are. In reality a large segment of our population is NOT responsible and NEVER WILL BE. Steve is right about massive punishment; we need it badly but we won't get it until we have meaningful judicial reform and about 2/3 less lawyers running around. I'm not bothered by a roadblock nearly as much as I'm concerned about the erosion of our 2nd amendment rights. If the feds want to throw some extra money at this problem; fine, at least the money stays in this country and might save a life or two (I lost a niece to a criminal, repeat DUI offender).

"Teetotalers and normal drinkers find it hard to understand why punishment has little or no effect on the alcoholic or addict. Punishment deters the problem drinker and recreational user. An alcoholic/addict doesn't care about losing a wife, kids, house, job or ruining his health and goes to ANY LENGTH to get drunk or loaded. A jail sentence is only an inconvenience that gets in the way of the next binge. A normal person doesn't want to go to jail for DUI, and changes behavior to avoid the punishment. The alcoholic/addict doesn't admit he has a problem and rationalizes their behavior including DUI."

Unplugged is absolutly right in his assesment. The loss of driving priviledge rarely affects the addict/acoholic as witnessed by the steady parade of repeat offenders and their carnage.
 

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who started this thread again? :shocked:

Well, I respectfully hold to the position of personaly responsibility. Addicts are intellectual and moral free agents (just like the rest of us) and they can stop at any time, they just have to want to stop. Doesn't matter who it is, from an inner-city kid to Rush Limbaugh or Brett Farve who were both addicted to pain killers.
 

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I studied German in high school and met with a lot of German foreign exchange students. They told me alot about the differences in alcohol (and other things) between the US and Germany. 16 is the legal drinking age, but none of them knew anyone who had a DUI arrest, becuase the penalties are so severe.

Anyhow, that's anicdotal but this is a good read.

http://www.howtogermany.com/pages/expat2.html
 

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I studied German in high school and met with a lot of German foreign exchange students. They told me alot about the differences in alcohol (and other things) between the US and Germany. 16 is the legal drinking age, but none of them knew anyone who had a DUI arrest, becuase the penalties are so severe.
There are cultural differences that have to be considered. When my dad was stationed in Europe, we would often visit the homes of friends we made there. I remember a dinner at a home and I was served wine with my meal. I was 6 years old at the time.

A few years ago we hosted exchange students from Japan. On Thanksgiving after we had dinner, we made turkey sandwiches and took them down to a local park where we fed the homeless. The Japanese students we aghast and couldn't believe that these people had no family to help them.

In Germany you can take your personal car on hot laps at the Nurburgring Race Course for a small entry fee. You can drive up, buy a ticket from a vending machine and off you go. Try that in the US. Lawyers would have a field day at the first accident. Germans have a more practical view. You drove too fast, you crashed, your fault.....too bad. Hope you have good medical coverage.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
I started the thread.

I also realized that I have a skill for getting interesting conversations going by posting just the right comment or question...
 
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