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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Fittingly, today on election primary day, a subject like 'Infrastructure' should raise some concern and perhaps anger since it seems that the current, and past administrations by both parties who have promised to tackle this looming disaster that truly is truly a ticking time bomb. Now with the shape or the system dwindling in poor to finally condition EVERY day, and in EVERY state, why the people we elect, and who promise to correct or at least attempt to enact legislation to start work on the sad condition of this Infrastructure, but repeatedly fail to ever even attempt to get to work on this pending lethal bomb nothing happens. Whenever I even think about this issue, I remember the view of the RT.35 bridge collapse into the Mississippi river. Years ago, I was on my way in a company truck headed to Cape Cod. On RT.95, above Brigeport I think, a bridge had collapsed down into a 60' gorge, and all there was, was a temporary wooden bridge constructed to allow One vehicle and ONE lane of traffic across the 400' gorge one truck at a time. Wanna quess how long it took to cross the bridge? well the traffic was 25 miles long. The Connecticut State Police had to enter the fray just regain civility. I saw fights break out as one driver cut in line and the craziness that ensued, it was truly something to remember. This is going to happen !

Now since it seems clear that we're not going to get this done, the only answer is the private sector. Now how they get paid is what is coming, and it ain't pretty. Now once we enter into any contracts with the private sector, please be aware that virtually every road will become a 'Toll Road' and how long do you think that will last? The Government will sign over ownership of all these roads and you and I will forever be obligated to pay the tolls which I'm sure will go from 'Basic' to regular for once construction are done, will go to 'Maintenance Costs'. I'm sure you most likely snickering right now but that exact idea is being passed around the table in government offices. And very soon your Governor, and or mine will resort to this, (most likely during their final days in office) But remember, we'll never get our roads back. These companies will sue to keep their property, and it will cost you to go to work, to your brothers house, to your mom's house, it'll cost you to back out of your driveway. If you drive, you pay. The longer we put this off, the worse it's going to get.

Now before you blow me off, remember the problem with Infrastructure costs ? What do you think your Public Officials are going to tell you this time ? Really ! with what? And remember the roads don't care if you have a ICE or a electric motor. Roads are a Investment for us. What do you think the 'Tolls' are going to look like ? Think they'll go up every year ? And please, don't think this won't happen. It has happened in Europe and in Asia, the Chinese have bought ports, roads and airports, and when the countries can't fork over the price tag, they 'Lease' the projects to the Chinese fo say, 99 years, by which time the projects will be worn out and needing another rebuild. Hell, maybe the Chinese will fix our problems. Think it can't happen here ?
 

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It sure can and it will. Just look at the 407 in Ontario, which is held privately for the most part. The tolls are very high and the highway is empty most days because people do not want to pay the tolls which, by american standards are exorbitant. It started as an infrastructure project and was sold off to balance the provincial budget soon after completion.
 
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This begs the larger question. Roads, bridges, and even ferries are funded by state and federal gas taxes. With increasing mpg vehicles gas taxes have had to rise and I have a feeling if it was graphed it wouldn't be in a straight line. So what about EV's paying their share? Capture it on vehicle registration or go to a tax based on yearly mileage? The former doesn't sound fair as mileage could vary wildly and the latter sounds unworkable. Only alternative I can think of is a tax at public charging stations and requiring a separate meter on a dedicated outlet for home charging, but there are workarounds that too. I guess that takes someone with a higher pay grade than me to figure this out, and that won't be much as I'm retired. :)
 

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Discussion Starter #5
I'm retired too, but this is a subject that's needs a lot of help, and I'm sure, if government does it alone, it's going to hurt. The "gas-tax" was installed when virtually all vehicles took either Gasoline or Diesel fuel, and for the most part that covered all bases. This problem has had a lot of room over the years to get off course. But you need to go back to base-1 to set your mind straight about what was and is needed. After president Dwight D. Eisenhower instituted the highway trust fund (a band aid at the time) to the existing same name bill or 1956 and the roads to everywhere came into being once more. This is a convoluted subject and I'm not smart enough to decide a One-Size-Fits-All answer to a subject that has more curves than a cats tail. You can look it up and judge for yourself.

We need to be able to fix and maintain our infrastructure and highways, and "I think" a more reasonable answer lays in a Plan that deals with the infrastructure ... and one that deals with roads/highways separate. locks on the Mississippi river for instance, right now costs farmers both in dollars earned and dollars spent to ship their crops, so they get hit twice because the Locks on that river are 100 years old and are broken and have been for a long time. On this particular portion of the problem, we are right now patching to just keep it open, situation and we are losing more money not doing anything than it would cost to get busy and repair and Upgrade the entire system not for now, but for the next 100 years. And this is important, because we need to spend money not for today, but for the future.

A highway tax I believe needs to be a "Gas Tax" but it has to subject both electric and fossil fuel the SAME ! There is NO plan that everyone will say OK to, but it is vital that the pandering lawyers don't tie it up for the next 25 years with arguments. We are already 75 years behind every other country in funding of this nature, and if allowed, the courts with tie this up until another section of the RT.35 bridge brakes of and tumbles into the Mississippi river and it will probably be the new section we just fixed and some more people will die because we allow these ambulance chasing bandit lawyers jerk us around once again.

The deadly problem is if this get too dicey for government/s to deal with they will as posted above will allow businesses to take control of the problem and decide they know the best way to fix this. And once they have legal right to operate the highway systems, all ability to fix, refinish develop and operate the highways all is lost. You have to keep one thing in mind, No Business or Corporations pay Loses, Taxes or fines or judgments, you the consumer pays all that. Businesses only collect PROFITS ! If pressed, just like real estate corporations, they will say they have a "Fiduciary Responsibility to their Investors" This is how the leader of the free world made every dime to his name, and will continue to abuse the nature of business forever. These companies could be here, in Europe, ASIA or the Middle East. But what they invest, has to be repaid 150% every year. And if the contract allows them to remain the sole holder of that property, 3 miles or 3000 miles , we will never be able to repay the amount which will recalculate every day the sun comes up. all of that will be lost forever, or until the country goes into a civil revolution as we did 244 years ago.Capitalism does not care if it sets itself on fire, everyone will scream "Not Me !" But it will be too little too late.

I have seen this very subject on a state level, and the citizens have NEVER been won out in or out of court.

I rest my case. Burn me away !
 

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I'm retired too, but this is a subject that's needs a lot of help, and I'm sure, if government does it alone, it's going to hurt. The "gas-tax" was installed when virtually all vehicles took either Gasoline or Diesel fuel, and for the most part that covered all bases. This problem has had a lot of room over the years to get off course. But you need to go back to base-1 to set your mind straight about what was and is needed. After president Dwight D. Eisenhower instituted the highway trust fund (a band aid at the time) to the existing same name bill or 1956 and the roads to everywhere came into being once more. This is a convoluted subject and I'm not smart enough to decide a One-Size-Fits-All answer to a subject that has more curves than a cats tail. You can look it up and judge for yourself.

We need to be able to fix and maintain our infrastructure and highways, and "I think" a more reasonable answer lays in a Plan that deals with the infrastructure ... and one that deals with roads/highways separate. locks on the Mississippi river for instance, right now costs farmers both in dollars earned and dollars spent to ship their crops, so they get hit twice because the Locks on that river are 100 years old and are broken and have been for a long time. On this particular portion of the problem, we are right now patching to just keep it open, situation and we are losing more money not doing anything than it would cost to get busy and repair and Upgrade the entire system not for now, but for the next 100 years. And this is important, because we need to spend money not for today, but for the future.

A highway tax I believe needs to be a "Gas Tax" but it has to subject both electric and fossil fuel the SAME ! There is NO plan that everyone will say OK to, but it is vital that the pandering lawyers don't tie it up for the next 25 years with arguments. We are already 75 years behind every other country in funding of this nature, and if allowed, the courts with tie this up until another section of the RT.35 bridge brakes of and tumbles into the Mississippi river and it will probably be the new section we just fixed and some more people will die because we allow these ambulance chasing bandit lawyers jerk us around once again.

The deadly problem is if this get too dicey for government/s to deal with they will as posted above will allow businesses to take control of the problem and decide they know the best way to fix this. And once they have legal right to operate the highway systems, all ability to fix, refinish develop and operate the highways all is lost. You have to keep one thing in mind, No Business or Corporations pay Loses, Taxes or fines or judgments, you the consumer pays all that. Businesses only collect PROFITS ! If pressed, just like real estate corporations, they will say they have a "Fiduciary Responsibility to their Investors" This is how the leader of the free world made every dime to his name, and will continue to abuse the nature of business forever. These companies could be here, in Europe, ASIA or the Middle East. But what they invest, has to be repaid 150% every year. And if the contract allows them to remain the sole holder of that property, 3 miles or 3000 miles , we will never be able to repay the amount which will recalculate every day the sun comes up. all of that will be lost forever, or until the country goes into a civil revolution as we did 244 years ago.Capitalism does not care if it sets itself on fire, everyone will scream "Not Me !" But it will be too little too late.

I have seen this very subject on a state level, and the citizens have NEVER been won out in or out of court.

I rest my case. Burn me away !
 

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No need to burn you JT. You are pretty well on the money. Even if the corporations have to pay then they just raise their prices and the consumer ends up paying through inflation.

The government on the other hand just prints more money. Thank you lucky stars that COVID affected every country and they all just printed money to throw at the problem. If an individual country did that, then they would cause major inflation due to the devaluation of their currency.

Having worked as a CPA in small, medium and large corporations all over the world it amazes me that so few people see and understand the effects of government policy and globalization.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
No need to burn you JT. You are pretty well on the money. Even if the corporations have to pay then they just raise their prices and the consumer ends up paying through inflation.

The government on the other hand just prints more money. Thank you lucky stars that COVID affected every country and they all just printed money to throw at the problem. If an individual country did that, then they would cause major inflation due to the devaluation of their currency.

Having worked as a CPA in small, medium and large corporations all over the world it amazes me that so few people see and understand the effects of government policy and globalization.
Yes indeed ! One of the 'best' to destabilize, If we wanted, with regard to North Korea's dictator, is to fill balloons, floated over by the prevailing winds, filled with counterfeit North Koran "Won" bills and dump them on the country. In short order the countries monetary problem would explode. The currency would crumbly and that would set off riots and the prevailing violence would set the stage for a revolution. Now this is just one way to remove the dictator. My greatest fear is that corporations and their dollar proprieties would erupt this country into a "Non Participation" undermining of our government. As the company mentality spreads from the boardroom to the courtroom, this country would crush itself in legal madness unchecked and leave the population at the hands of of the few on a board of directors, or many board of directors, each determined to save itself and sacrifice the country for the sake of the rich. Who if things got ugly, and it would, abandon the population and the country for the protection of foreign countries. I wish this scenario was ridiculous, but history is not as reassuring and the future of America predicated on the whims of wall street does not fill me with even a touch of confidence.
 

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I don't know what to say..... but I am going to go back 100 years to what makes sense..... If I go out to BFE and buy allot of land and start a new "town". The town needs infastructure. Say 10 people move to town and we already have "Main street" but other roads and buildings need to be built. Well, those 10 people pay taxes.... next year if 10 more people move to town, they may not tax the current road system, but the population has doubled.

50 years later if the town has grown to 1000 people, now you have the tax base of 1000 people. Now logic would say that since you have the tax base of 1000 people now, there is some level of funds allocated to fund streets....

If your population grows to 1 million people, the tax base is even larger. So where is all that money going? Then what happens....

Oh no we don't have money to support the current or future road systems..... lets set an outrages gas tax so now, not only are you collecting taxes on people by default, but you are also getting a percentage of tax from every gallon of fuel sold. YAY we are rich ... Let the government find any way to blow the money on stuff...

Then the cycle starts all over again... but escalated to an obscene level.....

We are out of money for roads again. Lets go pass a bond to build a new freeway / hiway..... Hmmm..... the public did not pass it because they are tired of being taxed...... Lets get private funding ...... YAY!!!!!!!! time to go build more roads we cannot afford........ and because we use private funding..... we need to charge a TOLL.

Then the fine print....... Where did that private funding come from? It did not come from anywhere in the USA..... Probably came from China..... or some other country. So now who ever provided the funding owns that road or property in the country we live in.

And by the way..... the money for those toll roads isn't going to pay the loan off..... they use it to build more toll roads...... Then what is left over goes to pay the loan off.

In the mean time......

People that don't pay a seamingly meaningless $3 toll fee after so many days or weeks, get sent to a collection agency that is contracted to by the turnpike authority and depending on how late the payment is, that $3 toll can end up being $50,000 with all the collection fees.

I think I am in the wrong line of work.... that is quite a scam. I seem to remember people suing the Texas TurnPike Authority over collection fees..... In the end the tax payers are being taken advantage of.
 
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