That is music to my ears.:sign0011:... But I still gotta swing by the dealership for a little more reasurance. But I think I'll be printing that out.
The Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act
Questions often arise regarding use of aftermarket parts like exhaust, suspension, engine etc. and how GM (or other mfgs.) warranty their vehicles. Here is the Federal law that governs manufacturers warranties.
From: Sema.org
From: Sema.org
So don't hold back on modifications to your new vehicle fearing that GM will void your warranty. Mods away!Federal Warranty Laws
1.The Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act (15 U.S.C. 2302(C))
This federal law regulates warranties for the protection of consumers. The essence of the law concerning aftermarket auto parts is that a vehicle manufacturer may not condition a written or implied warranty on the consumers using parts or services which are identified by brand, trade, or corporate name (such as the vehicle maker's brand) unless the parts or service are provided free of charge. The law means that the use of an aftermarket part alone is not cause for denying the warranty. However, the law's protection does not extend to aftermarket parts in situations where such parts actually caused the damage being claimed under the warranty. Further, consumers are advised to be aware of any specific terms or conditions stated in the warranty which may result in its being voided. The law states in relevant part:
No warrantor of a consumer product may condition his written or implied warranty of such product on the consumers using, in connection with such product, any article or service (other than article or service provided without charge under the terms of the warranty) which is identified by brand, trade or corporate name... (15 U.S.C. 2302(C)).
2. Clean Air Act Warranty Provisions (42 U.S.C. S 7541 (C) (3) (B))
The federal Clean Air Act requires vehicle makers to provide two emissions-related warranties -- a production warranty and a performance warranty. Theproduction warrantyrequires the vehicle maker to warrant that the vehicle is designed, built and equipped so that it conforms with emissions requirements at the time of sale. Theperformance warranty requires the vehicle maker to warrant that the vehicle will comply with applicable emissions requirements as tested under state vehicle emissions inspection programs for the warranty periods specified in the law (for model year 1995 and later vehicles, the warranty is 2 years/24,000 miles for all emissions-related parts and 8 years/80,000 miles for the catalytic converter, electronic emissions control unit and on-board diagnostic device). The performance warranty is conditioned on the vehicle being properly maintained and operated.
Like the Magnuson-Moss Act, vehicle manufacturers may not refuse warranty repairs under the Clean Air Acts performance and defect warranties merely because aftermarket parts have been installed on the vehicle. The only circumstance under which the vehicle manufacturer can void the emissions warranties is if an aftermarket part is responsible for (causes) the warranty claim.
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so a lift kit wont void my warranty?
My GM service guy told me when asking that same question was that they will not warranty any parts directly effected by my lift like if I had a hub go bad, it would not be covered. But, if I had something go wrong like my A/C was not working, my lift did not attribute to that problem so it would be covered.
how about a leveling kit?
sorry for all the Q's just trying to figure out what im going to do with my 08 ext cab
sorry for all the Q's just trying to figure out what im going to do with my 08 ext cab
Everything would still be under warranty except for the parts directly effected by the leveling kit. Do what I did and go talk to the guys in the service department and they can answer your questions. My service guy even said programmers are great but be sure to set it to the stock tune before bringing it in for service in case they need to update your ECM. He refered to a guy that his ECM locked up because he had some kind of tune in it when he brought it in for service and it cast him $1500 for a new one.
*BUMP* for people that are worried about voiding their factory warranty.
wow kind of nice to read these things but that all goes back to your dealer i would think. Some of those guys can just be straight pricks when it comes to warranty stuff.
so if i crank up my torsion keys but uncrank them when i go to the dealership i will be fine
Well, it's happened. If you mod your PCM, you have just invalidated your warranty!
See the excerpt from the PDF Below:
"#09-06-04-026: Identifying Non-GM (Aftermarket)
Engine and Transmission Calibrations for V8 Gas
Engines - (May 18, 2009)
Subject: Identifying Non-GM (Aftermarket) Engine and Transmission
Calibrations for V8 Gas Engines
Models: 2006-2009 GM Passenger Cars and Light Duty Trucks
(Excluding Saab 9-7X)
2006-2009 HUMMER H2, H3
Equipped with V8 Gas Powered Engines Only
Attention: This bulletin applies to V8 gas powered engines ONLY. For all other gas
powered engine applications, refer to Corporate Bulletin Number
08-06-04-033D. For diesel powered engines, refer to Corporate Bulletin
Number 08-06-04-006C.
General Motors is identifying an increasing number of engine, transmission and catalytic converter
part failures that are the result of non-GM (aftermarket) engine and transmission control
calibrations being used.
When alteration to the GM-released engine or transmission control calibrations occurs, it subjects
powertrain and driveline components (engine , transmission, transfer case, driveshaft and rear axle)
to stresses that were not tested by General Motors. It is because of these unknown stresses, and the
potential to alter reliability, durability and emissions performance, that GM has adopted a policy to
cancel any remaining warranty coverage to the powertrain and driveline components whenever the
presence of a non-GM (aftermarket) calibration is confirmed - even if the non-GM control module
calibration is subsequently removed.
Warranty coverage is based on the equipment and calibrations that were released on the vehicle at
time of sale, or subsequently updated by GM. That’s because GM testing and validation matches the
calibration to a host of criteria that is essential to assure reliability, durability and emissions
performance over the life of the warranty coverage and beyond. Stresses resulting from calibrations
different than those tested and released by GM can damage or weaken components, leading to poor
performance and or shortened life.
Additionally, non-GM (aftermarket) issued engine control modifications often do not meet the same
emissions performance standards as GM issued calibrations. Depending on state statutes, individuals
who install engine control module calibrations that put the vehicle outside the parameters of
emissions certification standards may be subject to fines and/or penalties.
This bulletin outlines a procedure to identify the presence of non-GM (aftermarket) calibrations. GM
recommends performing this check whenever a hard part failure is seen on internal engine or
transmission components, or before an engine assembly or transmission assembly is being replaced
under warranty. It is also recommended that the engine calibration verification procedure be
performed whenever diagnostics indicate that catalytic converter replacement is indicated.
In May 2009, the PQC will begin piloting a process to confirm the ECM/PCM calibration is GM issued.
Beginning on May 18, 2009, the PQC will require a picture of the engine calibration verification
screen, as outlined in this bulletin, before authorizing any V8 gas powered engine replacement.
If a non-GM calibration is found and verification has taken place through GM, the remaining
powertrain and driveline warranty will be cancelled and notated in GMVIS and the dealership will be
notified.
See the excerpt from the PDF Below:
"#09-06-04-026: Identifying Non-GM (Aftermarket)
Engine and Transmission Calibrations for V8 Gas
Engines - (May 18, 2009)
Subject: Identifying Non-GM (Aftermarket) Engine and Transmission
Calibrations for V8 Gas Engines
Models: 2006-2009 GM Passenger Cars and Light Duty Trucks
(Excluding Saab 9-7X)
2006-2009 HUMMER H2, H3
Equipped with V8 Gas Powered Engines Only
Attention: This bulletin applies to V8 gas powered engines ONLY. For all other gas
powered engine applications, refer to Corporate Bulletin Number
08-06-04-033D. For diesel powered engines, refer to Corporate Bulletin
Number 08-06-04-006C.
General Motors is identifying an increasing number of engine, transmission and catalytic converter
part failures that are the result of non-GM (aftermarket) engine and transmission control
calibrations being used.
When alteration to the GM-released engine or transmission control calibrations occurs, it subjects
powertrain and driveline components (engine , transmission, transfer case, driveshaft and rear axle)
to stresses that were not tested by General Motors. It is because of these unknown stresses, and the
potential to alter reliability, durability and emissions performance, that GM has adopted a policy to
cancel any remaining warranty coverage to the powertrain and driveline components whenever the
presence of a non-GM (aftermarket) calibration is confirmed - even if the non-GM control module
calibration is subsequently removed.
Warranty coverage is based on the equipment and calibrations that were released on the vehicle at
time of sale, or subsequently updated by GM. That’s because GM testing and validation matches the
calibration to a host of criteria that is essential to assure reliability, durability and emissions
performance over the life of the warranty coverage and beyond. Stresses resulting from calibrations
different than those tested and released by GM can damage or weaken components, leading to poor
performance and or shortened life.
Additionally, non-GM (aftermarket) issued engine control modifications often do not meet the same
emissions performance standards as GM issued calibrations. Depending on state statutes, individuals
who install engine control module calibrations that put the vehicle outside the parameters of
emissions certification standards may be subject to fines and/or penalties.
This bulletin outlines a procedure to identify the presence of non-GM (aftermarket) calibrations. GM
recommends performing this check whenever a hard part failure is seen on internal engine or
transmission components, or before an engine assembly or transmission assembly is being replaced
under warranty. It is also recommended that the engine calibration verification procedure be
performed whenever diagnostics indicate that catalytic converter replacement is indicated.
In May 2009, the PQC will begin piloting a process to confirm the ECM/PCM calibration is GM issued.
Beginning on May 18, 2009, the PQC will require a picture of the engine calibration verification
screen, as outlined in this bulletin, before authorizing any V8 gas powered engine replacement.
If a non-GM calibration is found and verification has taken place through GM, the remaining
powertrain and driveline warranty will be cancelled and notated in GMVIS and the dealership will be
notified.
This is a GM memo, meaning no matter what GM says you still have the same rights under the Magussen Moss Warranty act, they must prove the modification caused the failure. Magnussen Moss is a Federal act they have to abide by it doesnt care what any auto manufacturers internal repair decisions or memo's say.
This particular memo also borders on Federal Clean air acts regardiing catalytic convertors and emmissions parts which are pretty cut and dried and they have no grey area to deviate from.
Some people will be shown this memo when getting repairs at the dealership and assume it means they have no warranty, that would be a mistake on their part, they need to persue the issue with a mediator if this happens.
This is also why you never make a change to a warrantied vehicle that cant easily be changed back to stock prior to bringing the vehicle in for any servicing even something as simple as an oil change, if you dont think the dealerships arent checking and documenting modifications of any type to your vehicle your mistaken.
This particular memo also borders on Federal Clean air acts regardiing catalytic convertors and emmissions parts which are pretty cut and dried and they have no grey area to deviate from.
Some people will be shown this memo when getting repairs at the dealership and assume it means they have no warranty, that would be a mistake on their part, they need to persue the issue with a mediator if this happens.
This is also why you never make a change to a warrantied vehicle that cant easily be changed back to stock prior to bringing the vehicle in for any servicing even something as simple as an oil change, if you dont think the dealerships arent checking and documenting modifications of any type to your vehicle your mistaken.
they must take a picture of the cvn # (Calibration Verification Number ) this changings everytime you reprogram it must match what they have in the ivory tower if not bad news
You bring up a very interesting point. The CVN does change when a programmer is added. I'm wondering if the programmer changes it back when you perform an uninstall of the program?they must take a picture of the cvn # (Calibration Verification Number ) this changings everytime you reprogram it must match what they have in the ivory tower if not bad news
Yes thats one of the methods being used for tracking but it goes back to the fact that they have to prove what you've been doing and why it was recalibrated. With so many repair shops doing diagnostic and repair and almost none of them reporting back to GM on why a recal was done it would be almost impossible for them to know exactly who and why this was done.they must take a picture of the cvn # (Calibration Verification Number ) this changings everytime you reprogram it must match what they have in the ivory tower if not bad news
When you uninstall the program it registers a change and assigns a new number, so they'll always know you changed something but not what you changed or why you changed it.
Yes thats one of the methods being used for tracking but it goes back to the fact that they have to prove what you've been doing and why it was recalibrated. With so many repair shops doing diagnostic and repair and almost none of them reporting back to GM on why a recal was done it would be almost impossible for them to know exactly who and why this was done.
When you uninstall the program it registers a change and assigns a new number, so they'll always know you changed something but not what you changed or why you changed it.
Many aftermarket repair shops have the reprogramming pass through hardware and actually purchase the flash program from GM. So to be safe one could always remove his programmer and then have his PCM re-flashed with the latest programming before taking it in for a warranty repair. Especially if the programmer was set to high performance and something is broken because of it.
Yep, that would be the smart move, then let'em prove you werent running anything but stock settings.
sorry to say it doesn't change back as for sps you have to get a subscription from gm in order to program j2534 is what the aftermarket uses i think even that is connected to the ivory tower. them tuner people better get it together imho.
let me try to answer this as a former dealer they can refuse to fix under warrenty if it changes the specs of what the car/truck was designed for if you change say a gm hub with a napa hub they will not cover it since it should be covered by napa but will cover any other item that has not been changed or modified..ask your self if you were in buisness and someone changed something that changed what you built and it wasnt designed to be that way would you cover that change
Dan
Dan
true but just like computers in your home a reflash partichans the computer and they can see any and all changes you have made or changed nice tryMany aftermarket repair shops have the reprogramming pass through hardware and actually purchase the flash program from GM. So to be safe one could always remove his programmer and then have his PCM re-flashed with the latest programming before taking it in for a warranty repair. Especially if the programmer was set to high performance and something is broken because of it.
Dan
1 - 20 of 49 Posts
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